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Old 07-21-2014, 10:32 PM   #241
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Done this recipe now numerous times and have come up with small tweaks that might interest some people.
We use the Wyeast Irish Ale yeast, which a few others have mentioned as well, and also we have started replacing some of the marris otter with Irish Stout Malt (ending at about 3.5 lbs stout malt and 3.5 lbs marris otter for 5 gallons). Definitely scale back the grain bill if you do this as the Stout malt shoots the brewhouse efficiency way up. The stout malt definitely provides a little bit different flavor that everyone seems to love.
Just some ideas for anyone looking to change it up.

Also does anyone have ideas of how to sour easier in the KC area (Houston it would sour in 2 days)? We have made this 3 times since moving here and tried souring for a week or more just by putting a strainer on top with no success? Has adding in grain helped people with this?

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Old 07-22-2014, 06:21 PM   #242
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Could add a lacto starter to the wort you desire to sour. Supposedly malted barley is loaded with lacto on the husks. Could add some of that instead of a starter, but it might also contain other wild yeasts. It likes warmer temps like 90-100 I believe. Heating pad?

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Old 08-11-2014, 01:04 PM   #243
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I brewed this recipe today scaled down to 3 gallon batch but I fear my soured Guinness didn't sour very well. I poured a 12 oz bottle of Guinness Draught into a mason jar 6 days ago leaving it open to the air. On day 4 I checked the "souring" and detected nothing so followed advice on this thread adding a few grains of crushed malted barley and went a step further an put a thumb nails dab of Greek yogurt in it to be sure I got the lacto bacillus in the mix. This sat for two more days leading up to brew day today. Prior to dumping this in to last 10 min of the boil I sampled the "soured" Guinness again and yet again no detectable sourness. What went wrong with this? I fear my finished product will lack the classic tartness of a Guinness :-(.


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After 2 weeks of bottle conditioning (primed with DME at 1.7 vol CO2 which is low end for stouts so I could do air injection method to emulate nitro without causing a gusher in my glass) I sampled my first bottle of this clone. I used the "basting syringe inject air" method into the 3/4 glass of beer to emulate the nitro surge which worked brilliantly. At 3/4 pour I had a good 2" creamy head just from CO2 due to DME which is more than I wanted (priming with DME does create a creamier head vs corn sugar). I feared the syringe injection was going to cause a gusher but it didn't. After surge settled I poured remaining beer into glass similar to a properly poured Guinness from a stout tap leaving me a huge 4" creamy head. Next time I brew I'm going to throttle back to 1.5 vol CO2

Having recently returned from Ireland back in early June I had the taste and mouthfeel of Guinness etched into my brain and couldn't wait to give this a taste.

This brew was nearly spot on for flavor and definitely spot on for mouthfeel IMO. Color was a deep garnet and not the nearly opaque dark dark brown to black of Guinness. Taste after 2 weeks in bottle had a subtle burnt coffee taste but not bad. I suspect given a bit more time aging this will mellow out. The beer was slightly malt forward but definitely dry, not sweet. I picked up a subtle hint of sourness. If I hadn't been looking for the sour taste I wouldn't have noticed it.

When I brew this again I'd like to get the beer darker without adding any more burnt coffee flavor. For this first batch my roasted barley was around 300 L. I fear if I replace with a 500 L roast it will alter taste significantly.

Question: what's a good approach to darkening a recipe without modifying taste? Debittered black roast?

I'll also reduce amount of DME for priming targeting 1.5 vol CO2 vs 1.7 on this batch.

Attached are 2 photos. The one with 2 side by side glasses has Guinness bottle draught on the left and the "brewer's share" of my clone brew prior to bottle conditioning on the right. The second photo with one glass is my clone after 2 weeks in bottle and having just done the air injection method. imageuploadedbyhome-brew1407758335.953235.jpgimageuploadedbyhome-brew1407758362.521179.jpg




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Old 08-12-2014, 02:10 PM   #244
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Just responding to the last post...

Mitch Steele's book on IPA (pg. 175) suggests using Weyermann's de-husked carafes special III malt. They remove the husk before roasting which gives you the colour you need without the astringency.

I also talked to a friend of mine who makes gold winning Baltic porters. His trick is to let a dark roasted malt sit overnight in cold water in the fridge. This extracts the colour without much flavour or tannins.

Another option if you do experimental 2 gallon batches is to do what Guinness claims they do which is to boil your dark malts. I bet close to the end of the boil. It's worth a try.

Hope that helps.

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Old 08-13-2014, 02:47 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBuzz View Post
Just responding to the last post...



Mitch Steele's book on IPA (pg. 175) suggests using Weyermann's de-husked carafes special III malt. They remove the husk before roasting which gives you the colour you need without the astringency.



I also talked to a friend of mine who makes gold winning Baltic porters. His trick is to let a dark roasted malt sit overnight in cold water in the fridge. This extracts the colour without much flavour or tannins.



Another option if you do experimental 2 gallon batches is to do what Guinness claims they do which is to boil your dark malts. I bet close to the end of the boil. It's worth a try.



Hope that helps.

Thanks for this advice. As for the dehusked Carafe III would that completely replace the roasted barley or a partial substitute still retaining some roasted barley for the roasted flavor?


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Old 08-15-2014, 02:16 PM   #246
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I wouldn't replace the roast. You need it for flavour. Maybe substitute part or add in addition to your roast. Or if you try the cold water trick, you could add as much as you want because there is no sugar production in cold water. Just drain the dark liquid and leave the grains behind.

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Old 10-02-2014, 08:52 PM   #247
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I put this recipe into Beersmith, and it shows a lower than anticipated colour of 21.3 SRM, which is really a dark brown. Looking at youngdh's final product, that does seem to be the case.

I believe that there are some roasted barleys that are significantly darker than the 300L that Beersmith uses, so maybe this does not apply to all, but I do plan on using 8 oz of Midnight Wheat to get the colour up to where I want it (~32 SRM). The wheat may give this a bit more mouthfeel, considering the low ABV, although I think that effect might be minimal, given the flaked barely already present, and I will have this on a beer gas mix with a stout tap.

I plan on brewing this tomorrow evening, going to cold steep the roasted barley overnight, and I have my Guinness (hopefully) souring away in the garage. It's been there since Tuesday evening, so hopefully it sours by tomorrow evening.

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Old 10-02-2014, 08:55 PM   #248
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Are people having a good success rate with souring guinness? Seems like that is opening a can of worms.




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Old 10-03-2014, 12:29 AM   #249
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I think early this year was a water profile article in zymurgy about brewing Guinness. It jives also with some methods discussed in current BYO article regarding use of dark malts. Basically mash the light grains and separately mash the dark grains which are actually steeping I think instead being mashed before beginning the rest of the brew. They acquire a slight tang during this time and get added back to main mash at mash out I think or during lautering or vorlauf.


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Old 10-04-2014, 09:17 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumming102 View Post
Does this look close enough for an extract conversion? Still going to do the sour addition.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Guniess Extra
Style: Dry Stout (Irish)
TYPE: Extract
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.85 gal
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 24.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 38.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: - %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
Code:
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
8.40 lb       Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM)             Extract      68.52 %       
3.00 lb       Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM)                  Grain        24.49 %       
0.86 lb       Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)                Grain        6.98 %        
2.00 oz       Goldings, East Kent [6.20 %]  (60 min)    Hops         38.5 IBU      
2 Pkgs        Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-)           Yeast-Ale
Mash Schedule: None
Total Grain Weight: 12.46 lb
Code:
Steep grains as desired (30 minutes)
Notes:


I brewed essentially this extract recipe 4 weeks ago. White Labs Irish Ale Yeast, 5.5gal batch, SG 1.068. two weeks in primary, then racked to secondary with gravity 1.039. now two weeks later, and gravity is still 1.039 when I checked it today. I don't see an expected FG...am I stuck? should I pitch some extra to kick it back into gear? or should I just plan to bottle as is? I am concerned about bottle bombs if I add priming sugar and bottle, and kick the yeast up with that much gravity left...


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