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Old 01-27-2012, 07:09 PM   #11
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Hey there, new guy here.

This one looked great to me too so I gave it a shot. I'm mashing as I type. Quick question; do you think I could trim the fermentation down to 2 weeks? I noticed you let it go for 30 days. How much do you think that would change the final outcome?

Thanks for the great recipe!

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Old 01-28-2012, 06:55 AM   #12
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Your going to want to let it go till its done. After primary is finished put it in the 2nd and let it go a week. It should be starting to clean up so taste it if you want. If your happy with it then there ya go. However it will not be clearing up yet and more time in the 2ndary will make the beer much better. Even beers that you want to drink fresh and young you still want to age past that "Green" tasting phase. I like 5 or 6 weeks after 2ndary even on fresh young beers. I can't wait to try this one, maybe in a couple weeks!

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Old 01-29-2012, 12:53 AM   #13
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Your going to want to let it go till its done. After primary is finished put it in the 2nd and let it go a week. It should be starting to clean up so taste it if you want. If your happy with it then there ya go. However it will not be clearing up yet and more time in the 2ndary will make the beer much better. Even beers that you want to drink fresh and young you still want to age past that "Green" tasting phase. I like 5 or 6 weeks after 2ndary even on fresh young beers. I can't wait to try this one, maybe in a couple weeks!
Completely false. If brewed correctly, once it's done fermenting, it's good to go - unless you are concerned with clarity, which I am not, and being cloudy will not hurt the flavor. Sure it can improve with more time, but it shouldn't be by much. Any "green" flavors are off flavors from something with your process. I've had my Kentucky Common grains to glass in 11 days, tasting great. That being said, I usually keg mine up after 2 weeks, maybe 3 if fermented real cool (around 60, so it's slower).

The rye sounds interesting. I appreciate the credit/mention/link at the beginning.
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:40 AM   #14
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The link to the book is interesting. I've done a little research, and found a few places that mentioned souring the mash, and quite a few that didn't mention anything about souring. Most of what I read was that these beers were made with wild yeasts, so I'm wondering if the beer was sour, but not because of a sour mash.

I should post my recipe of my Sour Mash Kentucky Common.

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Old 01-29-2012, 01:54 AM   #15
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The link to the book is interesting. I've done a little research, and found a few places that mentioned souring the mash, and quite a few that didn't mention anything about souring. Most of what I read was that these beers were made with wild yeasts, so I'm wondering if the beer was sour, but not because of a sour mash.

I should post my recipe of my Sour Mash Kentucky Common.
The soured versions were apparently "2% lactobacillus in the yeast". I started off by experimenting with sour mashes instead because it was something different, and honestly I don't know what the 2% is referring to - cell count, ml, or what. I prefer clean versions of the beer though. The sour batches were fine, but impossible to be consistent due to variances of bugs on the grain. The sources that mention souring say "some versions were soured", so I believe that was not typical of the style, especially since it does not mention souring in the 1902 brewing book.
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:20 AM   #16
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One book that I read said that until after the Civil War, all beers in the US were fermented with wild yeasts. It went on to say that it was hard for a new brewery to brew a drinkable beer for quite some time. They had to brew batch after batch to get the right yeast, and then they would inoculate the new batches. Of course, they didn't know about yeast back then, but they new enough to use the good beer to make more good beer. It does stand to reason that the yeast could have contained some lacto, since it's what sours the mash. If they were brewing the beer in the same place that they distilled their whiskey, it could have very easily gotten into the unfermented wort.

We can't speak to someone who actually drank the beer from that time, so we'll never know if it was sour. But it's still interesting to try. I may have to make my KC again using lacto, and not souring the mash.

BTW, my SMKC won third place in our informal club competition. I'm happy with that.

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Old 01-30-2012, 01:15 AM   #17
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I'm sorry but there is nothing false about my statement. Every beer has a time when its ready. I have never brewed this beer but all I'm saying is after 2 weeks, it may be aged properly. In most beers at 2 or 3 weeks and forced carbed I can tast the water, and the beer flavor (green tasting). After a few weeks in the bottle of keg these 2 flavors mend and start to taste like beer. One smooth flavor. If this beer blossoms in 2 weeks (or 11 days) That's really great and I cant wait to try it. Point being its done when its done and no you cant rush it. The reason we use a 2ndary is to let the yeast consume off flavors THEY produce while fermenting, not to clear up mistakes in the brewing process. So please, if I have really stated any false information lets talk about it. Don't just mention its false and move on with out correcting it. And with cloudy beer you do get a yeast flavor. Mostly because you have yeast, protein, and tannins still floating around. IMO cleaning up in a 2ndary will give you the best beer you can brew. I'm not after good or grate. I'm going for as good or great as I can possibly make it. For me that means a 2ndary. I understand if you disagree. Cheers

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Old 01-30-2012, 01:49 PM   #18
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This thread isn't meant to be another discussion of conditioning times/secondaries/ no secondaries/long primaries, that's covered so much through this forum that it doesn't need to be brought up here. I suggest that if you want to know what many of us do and why, that you read THIS thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic thread, and discuss it there, not here.

To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .

Specific questions about the grainbill, or the history of the style, what this should be categorized as, or whether it's soured or not are great, but we do not need to fill this thread with ANOTHER debate about how long folks want to go from grain to glass, with their beers.

As most folks on here must know by now, I leave 99% of my beers in primary for a month. If I do chose to secondary a beer, I usually move it to a secondary around two weeks depending on the gravity, if it's done or not, and secondary could be anywhere from two weeks to 4 years depending on the beer.

People who ask "how long do you ferment x beer for?" Have to realize that we ferment a beer for as long as it needs to ferment, i.e how long it takes for the yeast to eat the all the fermentable sugars in a recipe and excrete alcohol, and for most beers that is a week to 10 days or so. After that time when the beer has reached terminal gravity, fermentation is complete, anything else that is done to the beer before bottling, meaning whether you rack to secondary or month + primary (like I do) is CONDITIONING. And you the brewer have to decide how you want to proceed. It's going to be your choice, if you want to rush it after 2 weeks, that's your beer, if you want to secondary, that's your choice as well, but if you want to re-create the beer as mine tastes, then follow what I did, leave the beer a month then bottle it.

But can we move any discussions about the process of conditioning off this thread? My answer to cascades question, is that I leave my beer alone for a month and bottle. I pitch yeast and come back 4 weeks later. As shown in the thread I posted in here, and about 5,000 other places on here, I personally think it makes for clearer, better tasting beer, then when I used to secondary. But you have to make up your own mind, and there's plenty of threads on this forum already discussion that.

I'd rather we not do it here.

I'm really enjoying the discussion with you and O'daniel, homebeerbrewer, most of those discussions with him, when I was formulating my recipe came through PM.

I think you really need to post your recipe as well, HBB, I think the more of us who have recipes for this style online, I think the more we can get more people turned onto this style and maybe more folks doing more research and contributing to the scant body of knowledge about this beer and other lost styles in general.

I'm contemplating brewing a batch of this as a lager this winter, I'm setting up my a ghetto lager chest on my GF's unheated sunporch- I usually try to brew lagers this time of year, since I don't have a dedicate freezer/fridge to lager in, and I take advantage of the winter conditions. I think I've drank the entire batch of this beer and am still jonesing for some, but I wonder how it would taste as a clean lager.

Any ideas on a good lager yeast to use?

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Old 01-30-2012, 02:08 PM   #19
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My mouth is watering already!
What would you classify this beer as if you had to though? A cali-common or do you think it would fall under the rye beer category with a small portion of rye?
Sorry I missed this.

It's actually an interesting question. I have a brew buddy who is a master BJCP judge and he actually had to judge one in a comp recently (He also really really loves this beer) it was entered into category 23 which states,

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Historical, traditional or indigenous beers (e.g., Louvain Peetermann, Sahti, vatted Porter with Brettanomyces, Colonial Spruce or Juniper beers, Kvass, Grätzer)
The cool thing he said way, was that the brewer who entered requested that it be judged solely as a Kentucky Common, on it's own merits following what info was out there (Probably a lot of O'daniel's info ) The head judge provided the info to the judges doing that category.

As you can see from where I placed this recipe, I followed O'daniel's lead and placed it in the American Ale category. Though if I were to enter a contest with this, (which my judge friend says I should) I'd follow the lead of the guy that entered his, and enter it into category 23 with the caveat that it be judges against the info for that style.

It's really NOT a Cali common, that is an entirely separate beer style. It's similar, but the biggest difference is that the Cali survived and the KC faded away. I bet though that had KC been ressurrected like the cali common commercially, that there would a style of beer called the "Common" and regional varieties would just all be lumped into it.
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Old 02-04-2012, 03:29 AM   #20
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Thanks for the follow up on the Revvy. Making this beer right now, about 10 minutes left before boil and then we hope for the best! I couldn't find flaked rye at my LHBS so I picked up standard rye and did my own little cereal mash (not sure if it even called for one). But I boiled it like a porridge for an hour, then plopped it into my mash.

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