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Old 12-15-2012, 12:02 AM   #11
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Honestly, to me, it tastes like you'd expect. Very little caramel sweetness, crisp bread like malt in the background. There is a hint of sweetness that comes from the LME. LME isn't as fermentable as DME or a all grain wort, and always leaves a sweetness to my palate. If you boil it, it's even less fermentable, and can taste downright caramelly. I'm guessing that's what you're getting. I always get overly sweet/malt flavored beer from boiling liquid extract. As for the hops, fresh, this beer is hoppy on the nose and in the flavor, for an American pale. The bitterness is medium to medium/firm, but not overly so. I gotta ask, did you let the hops steep in the hot wort for ~30 mins before cooling? With all the late hops going in at flameout, it needs that rest to contribute flavors and more aroma. Without that, you'll just get the aroma of a "0" min addition. The whirlpool helps with this too. What I do is as soon as I kill the flame, I slowly swirl the wort into a good spin, throw in hops, get the whirlpool going again and cover. I check temp every 5-10 mins and get the whirlpool going again. After 30 mins (or before it gets below 180 F), I begin chilling the wort.

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Old 12-15-2012, 12:09 AM   #12
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Definitely did not let the hops steep before chilling to pitch, more than say 5-10 mins. It did give a fair amount of hop bite in the end though. I will try this again, follow your recipe closer and post back results.

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Old 12-15-2012, 12:21 AM   #13
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Cool. Yeah, that hop steep, or "hop stand" is important if the only flavor/aroma addition is at knockout. All of the hops character aside from bitterness will come from that, and the steep pretty much just makes a hop flavored tea out of the wort. It's a good technique if you like alot of flavor and aroma from hops.

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Old 12-15-2012, 12:31 AM   #14
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What about hot and cold break? Without boiling your LME there will be more proteins in suspension. How would that affect the beer?

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Old 12-15-2012, 12:44 AM   #15
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What about hot and cold break? Without boiling your LME there will be more proteins in suspension. How would that affect the beer?
Not really much of a hot and cold break with extract. The hot break happens when the boil the wort to make extract. There's no ill effects from adding extract at knockout. You can see the beer above, clear as a bell.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:21 AM   #16
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I use dme and I get quite a bit of hot break. I don't doubt the clarity of your brew. I'm just curious if there is any ill effects from not boiling. The proteins are still in suspension. What does that mean for the final product?

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Old 12-15-2012, 02:23 AM   #17
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I just thought of a reason why I get hot break with dme and you don't with lme. The dme is spray dried not boiled down like the lme.

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Old 12-15-2012, 04:30 PM   #18
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I just thought of a reason why I get hot break with dme and you don't with lme. The dme is spray dried not boiled down like the lme.
DME is boiled some, then dry sprayed. But yes, you get more break w/DME. Either way, the KO LME or DME add isn't a new idea, and it's a good technique to limit the caramelization of extract in the kettle (malliard reactions). I actually got the idea from reading threads here and recipes in books/mags. I decided to start doing it when I was brewing mainly extract, and I noticed an improvement in several aspects of my extract beers; color, fermentability/attenuation (no 1.02 "extract stall"), and mainly in flavor. None of that "twang" that undoubtedly comes from Malliard reactions either in kettle or due to old extract.

To answer your question simply; I don't believe so. I've done dozens of batches where there was zero extract in boil, and have had no issues with suspended proteins in the final product. Many brewers do the same, add some or all of the extract at knockout and report the same findings. There's quite a bit of mention of this on threads here and in brewing publications.
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:20 PM   #19
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Thanks for the reply. I'm familiar with the late extract method. I've never done it, because I have always used a full boil. I've just never heard of having no extract in the boil. I'll have to give this a try.

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