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Old 01-12-2013, 11:48 PM   #421
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I would call them and take it back, if it was your idea (they still should have questioned you) you would have to add 20lb of base, mix it well and divide it by 3 to come close to what the author intended. Or you can make it and let us know what 30% crystal is like in a pale, I have no clue what it would be like.
I have been drinking, so my math is most likely flawed.

30% crystal would be sweet, and high in finished gravity.

And you'd probably need an insulin shot.

But if you can mash really, really low and long, and add some sugar to dry it out.. Add some extra hops to balance the sweetness, I think you can make it work.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:36 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by FATC1TY

30% crystal would be sweet, and high in finished gravity.

And you'd probably need an insulin shot.

But if you can mash really, really low and long, and add some sugar to dry it out.. Add some extra hops to balance the sweetness, I think you can make it work.
+1 some of my worse, and a whole lot of my best, beers have come from me messing up one or more items and just making adjustments on the fly and seeing what you can do with what you have.

Will you make the precise beer you were after? Nope. Will you make beer? Yep. And if you take this as a learning opportunity, a chance to take what you have on hand and manipulate your process to get closer to what you were targeting, I can guarantee it will make you a better brewer.

Everything FATC1TY says above will help you account for the additional unfermentables in your grain bill. The only additional things i can think you might want to consider would be your yeast choice, pitch rate and aeration. Not sure what you're using for yeast. But I would pick a high attenuator and use a yeast calculator an starter if necessary to ensure you're pitching a sufficient amount of healthy yeast into a well aerated wort. You want to squeeze every potential percentage point of attenuation out of your yeast.

And it stands to reason that you'll want to avoid any yeast that is billed as "malty" or "leaves residual sweetness"
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:46 AM   #423
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So the LHBS didnt have any vienna and subbed it for 2 lb caravienna
I'm gonna give your LHBS credit for a momentary brain fart. There is no possible way they should think that is a substitute. If they do, I take back my earlier credit.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:50 AM   #424
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BTW, I would just save the cara for another batch. You can sub it with another crystal you plan to use. Sure, that would be different, but that would give you a way to use it, and you likely wouldn't be able to tell much. 3 lbs of crystal in a batch is going to be sweet, no matter what you do.

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Old 01-13-2013, 02:51 AM   #425
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Yea i just looked it up. I wish I knew that earlier I cut the recipe down to 10lb so its 2lb caravienna in place of 3lb vienna. What is that going to do to the taste slightly sweeter?
Well, it's a shame because caravienna is not even close to Vienna malt. Vienna malt is a nice malty base malt. Caravienna is basically crystal 20L. Not even close to the same thing, and not at all a sub. I'd definitely talk to them about this- it'd be like subbing sugar for tomato sauce in a spaghetti sauce recipe! Not at all good.

If you already brewed it, you can expect a sweet American amber that is too sweet in the finish.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:58 AM   #426
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Well, it's a shame because caravienna is not even close to Vienna malt. Vienna malt is a nice malty base malt. Caravienna is basically crystal 20L. Not even close to the same thing, and not at all a sub. I'd definitely talk to them about this- it'd be like subbing sugar for tomato sauce in a spaghetti sauce recipe! Not at all good.

If you already brewed it, you can expect a sweet American amber that is too sweet in the finish.
Yea i wish i knew earlier but i cant do anything about it now they are closed until Tuesday and all the malt was milled together. I will be way out of style guidelines but ill still have beer. Don't worry Yooper ill RDWHAHB and try again with the correct ingredients.

BTW I feel like a complete idiot!!!!!
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:42 PM   #427
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BTW I feel like a complete idiot!!!!!
No need to feel that way- it's similar enough in name that it even fooled your homebrew store!

For next time, just remember that anything that starts with "cara-" is a crystal malt. You will never forget that after this!
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:53 PM   #428
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Yea i wish i knew earlier but i cant do anything about it now they are closed until Tuesday and all the malt was milled together. I will be way out of style guidelines but ill still have beer. Don't worry Yooper ill RDWHAHB and try again with the correct ingredients.

BTW I feel like a complete idiot!!!!!
I know this may not be the best option, but you could split the entire grain bill for another batch. You could take the grain and cut it in half, and replace half the grain with base malt. You'd still be 1.5 times the crystal, but that would be far less noticeable. You could also do it twice and be dead on. Granted, you would need to mill the new base malt, but you'd have enough grain for more brewing immediately behind it. You could also switch this over to a much more bitter IPA. An IPA would cover the extra sweetness better.

Another option would be to brew another identical batch right behind it, but leave the cara out. Once they both finish fementing, rack equal parts into the bottling bucket, and then bottle it out.

Sorry to suggest a ton more work (but more beer ).


Edit: It looks like others have suggested the above, too. I didn't see that when I posted. Nonetheless, that's an option.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:04 PM   #429
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Some of sciences greatest advances come from mistakes like this one. I agree - go with it and let us know!!

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Old 01-13-2013, 11:04 PM   #430
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20130113_174103.jpg

Well it ended up more of an amber then a pale ale (even though the pic looks brown). I split the batch with a friend it was my first time using my turkey fryer burner and keggel boiled off about 2 gallons. Both ended up with 2 gallons each in the fermenter. The OG was 1.070.

Although it wasn't under the most ideal circumstances I learned a lot about grain and my system. Thanks again to everyone who helped out. I'm already looking forward to brewing this with the correct ingredients.
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