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Old 02-10-2009, 11:01 AM   #11
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Ok. I thought that it may be weeks. Just wanted to make sure. Thank you!

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Old 03-17-2009, 01:43 AM   #12
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I stopped by my local home brew store to pickup everything I need to make this beer but I had to make a few substitutions due to not being able to find some ingredients. My subs are as follows:

Fuggles hops for goldings
crystal/caramel malt for carapils (store owner subbed and I didn't notice until I got home)
WYeast 1968 London ESB for WYeast 1272 American Ale II

Does this sound alright or did I screw up? I also couldn't find the American Special Roast Malt. The store owner recommended Victory Malt but I decided I'd check for a few "second opinions" first. Any ideas?

Also, I am new to extract brewing so I have a few questions. Do i just steep the grains or do I actually want to boil them? What temp should I steep/boil them at? Should I add them to the grain bag all at once? I just brewed an extract beer with a friend, we brought 2.5 gallons of water up to 165°F, then added all grains to a grain bag and dropped them in. We then held the water at 155°F for 1/2 hour. Afterwards we pulled out the grain bag and dropped it into a second pot containing 1 gallon of hot water for a 15 minute soak. We then combined the two pots of water, brought it all to a rolling boil and added the DME. We held the boil for 60 minutes (adding hops at the appropriate times). When that was done we cooled the wort in an ice water bath, transfered it to the primary and brought the volume up to 5 gal. Does this sound about right?

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Old 03-17-2009, 03:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Yavid View Post
I stopped by my local home brew store to pickup everything I need to make this beer but I had to make a few substitutions due to not being able to find some ingredients. My subs are as follows:

Fuggles hops for goldings
crystal/caramel malt for carapils (store owner subbed and I didn't notice until I got home)
WYeast 1968 London ESB for WYeast 1272 American Ale II

Does this sound alright or did I screw up? I also couldn't find the American Special Roast Malt. The store owner recommended Victory Malt but I decided I'd check for a few "second opinions" first. Any ideas?
They subbed you alright... They gave you a different beer.

Fuggles for Goldings is ok the alpha acids are about the same and flavors are both mild & pleasant

The 1968 ESB will work but 1056 would have been better sub for 1272.

The carapils & crystal sub should work too. Assuming he picked a low lovibond like 5 or 10.

Regarding the Special Roast & Victory. Special roast is twice as dark as victory. Victory is not the best substitute. If he has Melanoidin, I would try that for the special roast it will add some maltiness and red color.

I didn't realize this, I have been told victory & biscuit are about the same, so what did he want to give you for the biscuit?

If you have all the ingredients I'd go ahead and brew it up. Its not gonna be the same beer but it will probably turn out nice. I not sure if it will be red though if you can't add Special Roast or Melanoidin. If he has neither sub 40-60L Crystal Malt or CaraMunich. I'd do the CaraMunich over the crystal malt.

You might ask yourself if you like the shop because he subbed 4 of the 7 ingredients!! He essentially created a different beer for you. How willing were you to go along with him? I would have asked that he get these ingredients. None are really out of line or all that unusual. If he doesn't have special roast I wonder if he'll have melanoidin or caramunich.

As for the use of the grain, bag it and drop it in 2.0 gallons of cold water bring it up to 150-160F and hold the temp for about 30 minutes then yank it out lettting it drip and don't squeeze the bag. Bring your wort to a boil (KILL THE HEAT) add the extract (mixing really well to prevent burning the extract), bring to a boil again, add 1st bit of hops and start timing. Add the last hops at the last 5 minutes.

If you got more Q's let me know.
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:20 PM   #14
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Yeah, I wasn't real impressed with the store owner's attitude towards substitutions. He wanted to sub everything it seemed. The worst part is he has the best selection in the city! I knew I had to sub the hops as I couldn't find goldings anywhere. The crystal/caramel malt substitution was a disappointment as he said he had carapils when I phoned. I'm not sure if it was an honest mistake, lack of knowledge or just wanting to make a sale on his part. I didn't even notice that one until I got home (and I'm not thrilled about it to be honest). As for the yeast I accepted his recommendation on that one. I'm going to see if he has the other yeast. I am also going to try to track down the special roast malt as well since I am really looking for a red beer.

So honest opinion: If I can't find the yeast and the special roast malt do I brew this bad boy up as? Or should I put the malt in a clean dry place, toss the yeast in the fridge and save them for another project?

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Old 03-17-2009, 03:24 PM   #15
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So honest opinion: If I can't find the yeast and the special roast malt do I brew this bad boy up as? Or should I put the malt in a clean dry place, toss the yeast in the fridge and save them for another project?
Get his best sub based on my comments and brew it up. I won't be bad in fact it might turn out pretty good and a bit red too.

I think the extra specialty grains give the beer a lot of character.

If you do this, post again with pictures and tasting notes.

BTW - Never boil grain. It can make the beer very astringent.
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Old 03-17-2009, 08:06 PM   #16
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I'm becoming very frustrated. No one in my city sells WYeast except the store I've already been to. Everyone seems to think the Caramel Pils Malt is Crystal/Caramel Malt. the Crystal/Caramel malt I was sold has a lovibond of 40 (I checked). No one in town has Special Roast Malt, Melanoidin or Caramunich. When I asked for an alternative to Special Roast the store I was at recommended Victory. When I asked the same guy for an alternative to Melanoidin he recommended Malt Munich 90.

I was really hoping to brew this weekend (GF is out of town) but it looks like it might be a bust. What do you think? Any suggestions? I have:

WYeast 1968 London ESB


6.00 lbs. Briess LME- Gold America 1.035 4
1 lb Crystal/Caramel malt
1 lb Biscuit Malt
1 lb Chocolate Malt
1oz Fuggles hops
1 oz Willamette hops

and I can get Victory or Malt Munich 90. Is there any way I can salvage this and make something?

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Old 03-17-2009, 08:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Yavid View Post
I'm becoming very frustrated. No one in my city sells WYeast except the store I've already been to. Everyone seems to think the Caramel Pils Malt is Crystal/Caramel Malt. the Crystal/Caramel malt I was sold has a lovibond of 40 (I checked). No one in town has Special Roast Malt, Melanoidin or Caramunich. When I asked for an alternative to Special Roast the store I was at recommended Victory. When I asked the same guy for an alternative to Melanoidin he recommended Malt Munich 90.

I was really hoping to brew this weekend (GF is out of town) but it looks like it might be a bust. What do you think? Any suggestions? I have:

WYeast 1968 London ESB


6.00 lbs. Briess LME- Gold America 1.035 4
1 lb Crystal/Caramel malt
1 lb Biscuit Malt
1 lb Chocolate Malt
1oz Fuggles hops
1 oz Willamette hops

and I can get Victory or Malt Munich 90. Is there any way I can salvage this and make something?
OK - Use the yeast you got 1068. If you don't want to it then use S-05 dry yeast.

For the carmel pils do 50/50 carapils and crystal 10L

Go with the victory malt in place of special roast.

You'll be OK with that.

If you absolutely want the exact ingredients you can also by this online at Northern Brewer.

If you do these subs it'll be OK. It'll be your special twist.
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:28 PM   #18
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I've contacted a local brewing club to see if any of their members might be able to help me out. So far I managed to find some Caramunich so I can use that if I can't find Special Roast. I'm still looking for caramel pils or carapils & crystal 10L though. If I can track that down I'm going to brew with the yeast and hops I have. So my variation will be:

Fuggles hops in place of Goldings
Caramunich in place of Special Roast (unless I can find Melanoidin)
WYeast 1968 in place of 1272

We'll see how that turns out. Next time I brew I plan on doing this recipe properly, then I can compare.

Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how my "Substitution Irish Red" turns out.

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Old 03-18-2009, 02:40 PM   #19
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You have the hops, base malt, and decent yeast so whatever you make should be pretty good. The twist will be on the specialty malts. Since they are not a prominent part of the recipe the variation will not be all that bad.

At least you got the chocolate malt. What you are missing is the low & mid range lovibond grains. With subbing those the flavor and color will be different, but definately NOT bad.

BTW - carapils is a trade name for dextrine malt.

I made this once with 50/50 carapils & 10L crystal. It didn't change it much. The special roast sub will be the determining factor.

There's no need to thank me, but that's much appreciated. Hope you get those other ingredients.

Good Luck

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Old 03-18-2009, 09:00 PM   #20
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Ok. I'm sure you're getting tired of this already but here's the latest. Thanks to a tip from a local homebrewer I was able to locate a shop in a nearby city (5 hours away) that had carapils, crystal 15L (I know, a little too dark), melanoidin, caramunich & Wyeast 1056. I am having him express ship everything to my workplace. Sounds like I'll have it by Friday.

So I think I'm going to use the 1056 Yeast, fuggles hops in place of the goldings, a 50/50 mix of carapils and crystal 15L in place of the caramel pilsner and either melanoidin or caramunich in place of the special roast (any suggestions? Maybe 50/50?). Thought I'd get your opinion one last time.

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