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Old 01-09-2013, 03:39 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by lockwom View Post
Your original recipe includes both chalk and baking soda. I'm interested in brewing this beer as closely as I can, but instead using only pickling lime to increase alkalinity, keeping sodium levels significantly lower. This chalk approach generally follows the advice of Martin Brungard, and I think even derives from some of your experiments regarding solubility of chalk.
The recipe is what it is. I checked my notes and I have even added chalk and baking soda to the sparge water. It can be argued that those two salts should be omitted from the sparge water, but I was following a purity law philosophy that if any water treatment is done it is done to all water. Technically chalk doesn't conform with the purity law unless it is dissolved with CO2.

Ever since I suggested the idea that pickling lime could be used as an alternative to chalk or even dissolving chalk with CO2 it has gained quite some popularity among some water experts. My experiments have shown that there are issues with chalk but those issues are not regarding flavor but regarding its effectiveness in raising pH. In many experiments I have shown that the utilization of chalk is about 50% and as long as your water calculator or spreadsheet get that correct there is no issue with using chalk. I actually prefer using chalk over pickling lime when it comes to building water. It's safer to handle. My work has shown that there might be a limit by how much chalk is able to raise the pH but we also know that even very dark beers don't need nearly as much alkalinity as we thought they would.

So I'd go with the shown water treatment first and make modifications on subsequent batches.

I don't think that the Sodium level is overly high. It's about the same level they have in Duesseldorf and I doubt that the brewers there remove sodium from their water.

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I'm leaning toward an "Amber Malty" profile like Brunwater, when comparing your previous chloride and sulfate levels.
The recipe comes with a water profile, so why is there a need to take a different target water profile. The water profile I'm giving tries to emulate the Duesseldorf water. With that water you should be able to get the desired mash pH. It worked for me but there might be variations in the base malt DI-water-pH that may throw this off. But you won't know that until you dough in.

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Old 01-09-2013, 11:09 AM   #62
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Thank you very much for your feedback, Kai!

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Old 01-11-2013, 09:00 PM   #63
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I need a little help here. I'm pretty new to all-grain, having only done four BIAB batches before but now I've built a mash tun and am eager to use this recipe on it for the first time. I also just purchased BeerSmith 2 and I'm still learning it. I plugged this recipe into BeerSmith, which is leading to some more questions.

My question is with the decoction steps. Having never done it before, I'm just looking to clarify and hope I'm not going over my head too much since I'm new. I know it's an advanced technique, but I'd like to give it a shot.

Beer Smith 2 gave me the following steps for a five gallon batch after choosing "Decoction Mash, Single" (is that the right option?):
Protein rest - Add 20.48 quarts of water at 136.4F - Step temp 131F - step time 20 minutes
Saccharification - Decoct 5.56 quarts of mash and boil it - Step temp 150F - step time 45 minutes
Mash out - Heat to 169F over 10 minutes - Step temp 169F - step time 10 minutes
Fly sparge 2.83 gallons of water at 168F.

The protein and saccharification steps seem pretty straightforward, but I'm a bit confused on the mash out. How do I achieve the 169F during the mash out? Just add enough strike water until I get the temperature? Or do I do another decoct? When doing BIAB I would just turn up the heat until I got the temperature. And do I really fly sparge? Didn't see that in the original instructions and it seems redundant.

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Old 01-11-2013, 10:33 PM   #64
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Jamie, Kaiser made an excellent video on decocting. It is posted on his website. Unfortunately, I don't have the link handy.

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Old 01-12-2013, 11:22 AM   #65
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Thanks Arturo. I found the videos on YouTube which did indeed answer a lot of questions. My remaining head scratchers have to do with Beersmith 2... specifically why it doesn't give me a volume for the mash out and also why it says to fly sparge (and gives a volume for that). Regardless, I guess I can see a work around. However, I might delay brewing this recipe for now only because I think it would be better to get a few simpler recipes under my belt first.

Post-edit: Aha! I found out what I was doing wrong with Beersmith. Needed to change the label of the mash out step to "decoct". Now it gives me a volume.

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Old 01-14-2013, 05:27 PM   #66
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Here are links to the videos: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php...Mashing#Videos

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Old 01-14-2013, 10:18 PM   #67
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I brewed this yesterday, violently fermenting away as 1007 usually does.

The double-infusion decoction mashing process took far longer and more equipment juggling than the usual single infusion, but I could detect a noticable aroma change after decocting. I imagine this would be a different beer without those steps. Overall, I'm glad I experimented with a new style, and lookin' forward to it!

Key point: definitely add the 20% fudge factor to the decoction formula. I forgot, and didn't hit mashout temp. So, I only briefly rested before batch sparging to avoid too much conversion at that temp.

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Old 01-17-2013, 03:02 PM   #68
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[/QUOTE]I agree with you--when I bought the book I was hoping it would have more information on the history of what ingredients etc. were used in the styles.....I also don't like that it barely covers any styles. I still use it to get another perspective on common styles I want to try. [/QUOTE]

I think you should check out Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher if you want more on how to make traditional styles from their country of origin. I've read a bunch of beer making books and this one takes the cake, IMHO It is the only brewing book that's taken me more than a day to complete, except Yeast by Jamil Z and Chris White. That one takes a bit to digest the content and figure how to put what I've learned into practice.

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Old 02-06-2013, 12:13 AM   #69
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I just kegged this up after two weeks @ 34 with gelatin. It's a little on the big side vs. the original recipe (1.058 to 1.012), but man, what a beer. The malt nose is something else, and the body and bitterness are perfect (bittered with sterling). I'm entering this in a comp that is the end of the month as a 7A, I'll let you know how it fairs. Thanks kaiser!

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Old 02-06-2013, 10:48 PM   #70
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I'm glad to hear that. Thanks.

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