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Old 07-30-2011, 01:33 AM   #1
Germelli1
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Default Bread/Sourdough with Brewing yeast!

So I have been wanting to break into the artisan side of bread making for a while. I have also been wanting to make a sourdough starter for a while so I decided to just dive into it all at once! I thought, "Hell, I have a house strain of brewing yeast, why not see if I can make it a house bread strain as well?"

So the following is my experimental attempt at making a sourdough starter using Pacman yeast!

I started by boiling up a small 2 cup starter.


As it cooled I decanted the 1/2 pint of washed pacman yeast, then set it out to cool to room temp.



Once the small starter fermented out, I boiled up another 1 liter of wort. The boil consisted of a quart of water, 1.5 cups DME, a half cup table sugar and a small handful of raisins. Once boiled for 20 minutes, I let it cool over night then poured it all into the flask to mix with the original starter (except the raisins).

I put the flask on a stirplate this time for 5 days.

It took a while to chew through the starter, but it made it. I put it in the fridge for 2 days to help pull the yeast down out of suspension.

My original plan was to just build up a massive yeast cake at the bottom of my flask, then use a pipette to pull pure yeast out. Once I figured out an easy sourdough starter recipe, I changed my mind.

I just decanted most of the spent wort on the starter, shook up the flask, pitched all but enough to just cover the stirbar into a batch of beer. Then the flask went back into the fridge until today.

This morning I finally decided to go for it. I chose a simple recipe for a sour dough starter that called for 2 cups bread flour 2 cups water and a package of baking yeast.

I shook up my flask once again, poured it into a measuring cup and it came out to exactly 1.5 cups. I topped it up with a half cup of warm water. I mixed up the yeast slurry and flour to get my dough starter.



I covered it with a towel, and now I am going to let it sit in the oven with only the light on to raise the temp a few degrees above ambient. I plan to leave it like this for the duration of my camping trip this weekend.



But I couldn't resist and had to check the progress 6 hours later:


So I am pretty excited...will it make bread? Most likely. Will it make a good loaf of sourdough? Who knows! But it has been a fun experiment and would be awesome if it works in the end!

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Old 08-01-2011, 08:54 PM   #2
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I think you are going to make a helluva dough with that. You used way better technique than my half arsed attempt. It still turned out ok. I tried it with WY3068 but there was no charicteristic strain taste to it, even though it fermented at 85 degrees (yikes!). I may be wrong but I think baking takes out the esters.

Either way, I likey what I see.

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Old 08-02-2011, 03:35 PM   #3
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Well, I checked it when I left for my camping trip and it looked perfect. It had an inch of liquid (presumably alcohol) and smelled amazing. After the trip it smell like vomit, so I am going to try it again, but get it in the fridge sooner!

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Old 08-02-2011, 03:39 PM   #4
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Sourdough starters are made by inoculating flour and water with wild yeast and bacteria, much like how a lambic beer is spontaneously fermented.

If you are using packaged yeast (and your "sourdough" recipe even calls for a package of yeast?), it is not sourdough.

Your method will definitely make bread, but there will be a distinctive lack of sourdough "twang" in the finished product.

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Old 08-02-2011, 03:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoChef View Post
Sourdough starters are made by inoculating flour and water with wild yeast and bacteria, much like how a lambic beer is spontaneously fermented.

If you are using packaged yeast (and your "sourdough" recipe even calls for a package of yeast?), it is not sourdough.

Your method will definitely make bread, but there will be a distinctive lack of sourdough "twang" in the finished product.
I know, I want to get a good just yeast starter going and I am hoping it will pick up a bit of funk along the way.

Any tips you can give I would really appriciate! How is this different from pitching yeast, then pre-packaged brett to make a lambic? What I mean is: Is there anyway to inocculate my starter with some funky bacteria that will be similar to inoculating beer to sour it?
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:00 PM   #6
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Sure, it's almost as simple as mixing some flour with some water and leaving it out in the open for a period of time. Then, "feeding" it (mixing in more flour/water) every so often. A great resource on getting started is here.

As for your lambic questions - that's just an argument about semantics. As you most likely know, traditional true lambics are only made in the small Lambic (Pajottenland) region of Belgium. They are made from a grainbill consisting, in part, of unmalted wheat (in addition to Pils, generally) and, as with breweries such as Cantillion, cooled in shallow vessels that are exposed to the outside elements. This process spontaneously inoculates the wort with several strains of yeast and bacteria, giving the beer it's traditional sourness.

That said, it can be argued that by pitching a Lambic Blend of cultured yeast, such as that offered by White Labs or Wyeast, you are simply making a "lambic-style" beer, as many of the lambic brewers of Belgium think they name should be protected much like Kolsch for Cologne or Champagne, yada yada.

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Old 08-02-2011, 04:07 PM   #7
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Thank you, I understand completely. I know you can find sourdough starter cultures for mail order, but I would rather have fun experimenting on my own. I always have the breadmaker as a constant supply of bread, but I am just trying to make something with my brewing yeast that will hopefully start to resemble sourdough down the the road!

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Old 10-02-2013, 10:49 PM   #8
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Bringing this one back from the dead....

I just mixed a sourdough starter today using a free packet of old Wyeast 3191 (Ale Yeast, Lacto, and Brett). Already getting bubbles. Going to build the starter and do a slow rise to make it extra sour.

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Old 10-04-2013, 11:34 AM   #9
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When working with sourdough it usually brings out the twang in the bread if you retard the dough in the fridge for a period of time right after the initial knead.

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Old 10-04-2013, 11:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
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When working with sourdough it usually brings out the twang in the bread if you retard the dough in the fridge for a period of time right after the initial knead.
I'm going to have to try that. My stater was made with the trub from the bottom of my fermenter, been going a couple years now and tastes great. Good luck on your starter TriggerFingers.
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