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Old 11-30-2010, 02:40 AM   #1
PuckeredPenguin
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Default Yes one more Brutus Custom Debacle :-)

Well folks I have been working on this project for a while and thanks to many of you on here I have come up with a Semi-Automatic single tier 3 keg propane system based primarily off of the designs from jlandin, nicksteck, AGBrewer, Yuri_Rage, Bobby_M, Lonnie McAllister and many others at this time have slipped my mind Please take a look at the photos below (let me know if they are viewable). I am running into a problem however involving my burners. Here is my current setup

Propane Tank--> 3/8 OD line to a Marshall 290 dual stage reg ---> Gas manifold-->HLT & MLT via Honeywell Furnace Valves(with proper propane spring installed)--->3/8 ID custom hoses from Hecht Rubber--->BG-14 Burners & for the Boil Burner I just connected the BG-14 to the same 11" W.C. gas manifold for manual operation.

So as I learned from all of you pioneers on HBT, I drilled out my original high pressure BG-14 orifices to 1/16" to allow the 11" W.C. propane gas proper flow into the burner, and as you will see from my pictures I get a nice blue flame that is clean and about 2 1/2" to 3" high.

My issues is with the performance of the burners I use Beer Tools Pro and when I do the calibration for my burners and measure how long it takes any one of the burners to give me an 18 degree delta on 10 gal of water it takes at least 11 minutes! Which is like 2.94 Kw, not what I was expecting, especially after reading all the great things from jlandin's project. And it literally took over an hour to heat HLT water from 68f to 180f. I didn't even bother trying to attempt a boil with the BK burner, I just resorted to using my original Bayou Classic Turkey Fryer Burner which get me boiling in less than 20

So I realize by going to a low pressure semi auto system I would be sacrificing some performance, however what I have now literally would take me 3 days to do a single 10 gal batch!

So from the research I have done I need to do one of the following:

Increase the size of the supply hose from my LP tank from the current 3/8 od (1/4 id) that feeds my Marshall 290 to something larger like 3/8 or even 1/2?

Drill out my orifaces larger or purchase these LPG Valve-Orifice

Unless of course my current configuration is correct and I am stuck with a crappy heat txfr from my BG-14's to my kegs?

Any advice, recommendations, or verbal abuse is requested

Here are the pictures

Thanks

Nick

img_1018.jpg   img_1010.jpg   img_1020.jpg   img_1021.jpg   img_1024.jpg  

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Old 11-30-2010, 04:00 AM   #2
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Drill out the burner gas orifices to 3/32" from 1/16" (2/32"), then if you have not replaced the Honeywell internal regulator spring, use the heavier gauge spring for LP, and turn screw on top of spring down to increase outlet pressure when valve is open. You should see a big difference then, flames should be quite a bit taller.

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Old 11-30-2010, 01:11 PM   #3
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klaude,

I have the heavier spring installed in both valves screwed down to the recommended setting. I will give the 3/32 a shot today. Thanks for the reply

Nick

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Old 11-30-2010, 01:42 PM   #4
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I have a gas system set up. I use 1/4 hose and a Marshall C6120regulator, look on page 3 of the following PDF: http://www.abergas.co.nz/anytime/pdf...c1fd93p314.pdf. It has an output range from 5 -45psi. I can bring wort to boil in about 12 minutes and at the same time heat my HLT from 60F to 170 in about 12 minutes. Both of these are 15.5 gallon keggles. I never out run my vaporization rate of the tank. You are just not geting enough BTUs from that 290. The C6120 has a BTU capacity of 600,000. The 290 only has 160,000 BTUs. Your burners pull way more than that if all three are running at the same time. According to your link to the burners you are using, each burner pulls 100,000 BTUs when full on. Heck, two of those burners pull more than that regulator can produce. It is like trying to run a fire hose off your house spigot.

Also, What type of connection do you have on your cylinder? What type of P.O.L.? Is it a QCC1? Black nut or green? If you go with the C6120 you will need to use the QCC1 with the green nut to get the input required.



Oh, and I work for Marshall Gas Controls. We make these regulators...

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Old 11-30-2010, 03:06 PM   #5
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Klaude: Drilled out the orifices to a drill size of 44 or.0860 decimal equivalent, and the burners perform much better now! I went from heating 12 gal of water in 11 minutes to 12 gallons in just under 7! A Kw increase from 2.4 to 4.6 (est)!! Thanks for the tip!!

Gracho:

Thanks for the PDF and suggestions. I really only ever run two burners at once, however I have ran all three and the system (now after re-drilling the orifices) seems to perform just fine. Now I have no way of measuring effective BTU output but as you can see from my reply to Klaude I have almost doubled my performance.
Also the Honeywell furnace valves can only take a max of 13 W.C. or just over .5 psi (from the valve manual) I am running them at 11 W.C. so I don't think they would work well with the C6120. However I have considered using it for the BK burner to kick it up a notch:-) But as of now I will stick with what I got. O and thanks for awesome product support! It's not often that a product expert replies with accurate and to the point information

Thanks

Nick

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Old 11-30-2010, 03:12 PM   #6
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Default Missed That About Your Valves

Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckeredPenguin View Post
Also the Honeywell furnace valves can only take a max of 13 W.C. or just over .5 psi (from the valve manual) I am running them at 11 W.C. so I don't think they would work well with the C6120. However I have considered using it for the BK burner to kick it up a notch:-) But as of now I will stick with what I got. O and thanks for awesome product support! It's not often that a product expert replies with accurate and to the point information

Thanks

Nick
Sorry about that. I didn't see that about your valves. Definitely a bottle neck if using the C6120.

Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:05 PM   #7
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Nick, if after drilling the jets and adjusting the air shutter, and the air shutter is not more than 75% open you can increase the hole size by one less bit size. You can repeat this until you hit the 90% open point on the air shutter. Another tip is to adjust air shutter closed until the tips of the flame start to show yellow, this is the maximum efficiency you can get from the burners as the hot gas flow is the lowest and the heat will stay under the pot longer.

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Old 11-30-2010, 05:27 PM   #8
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Kladue,

Just got done tweaking the shutters and I am right at 90% and everything looks great!! I shaved another 12-15 seconds off my 18 degree delta time! Thanks again for the tip!!

Nick

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Old 11-30-2010, 06:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckeredPenguin View Post
It's not often that a product expert replies with accurate and to the point information

Thanks

Nick

Ex is a "has been" and a a spurt is a "drip under pressure."

I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination. I work in their IT department. A couple of the Engineers here helped me with my gas set up.

I was really just stating what I learned trying to set mine up.

On the other hand I have access to the great minds here. So, If you have any questions, I'm sure they would be willing to provide some sort of answer. After all, they are beer drinkers too...
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:57 AM   #10
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Nick...got the house I was trying to buy so I will be utilizing/stealing your experience on this very shortly. Can't wait to put the new pumps to the test and to start piecing together my new stand!! Glad to see you got your new burners in and tweaked up just right.

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