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Old 12-13-2010, 03:06 AM   #1
slakwhere
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Default why do i suck at Whirlpool?

so i got the More Beer 5/10 split with a recirculation/whirlpooling arm. Like This and This

My BK has a stainless scrubbie on the end of the pick up tube, then to a 1/2" ball valve, to some camlock fittings, to my pump, and onto the recirc arm.

i've tried it with the IC and just the recirc arm, and i don't seem to be getting enough of a whirlpool. the water barely seems to be moving. hardly a "whirlpool" effect.

can anybody tell me what i'm doing wrong? are my camlocks restricting flow too much? could it be my hoses are too long? wtf?

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Old 12-13-2010, 03:27 AM   #2
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try moving the recirculating arm up more towards the top

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Old 12-13-2010, 03:59 AM   #3
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Is the scrubbie getting clogged up with hops//trub and causing a restriction at the pick up tube?

Could be that the inside diameter of your hoses and/or fittings is too small and possibly causing excessive restriction. What size hoses are you using? It's best to keep the hoses as short as possible for best performance.

Might be a combination of any of the above, ie hoses too small and clogged scrubbie partially inhibiting the flow.

You can get a feel for how much restriction your hoses and fittings are causing by pumping into a bucket and timing how long it takes to pump five gallons of water. Check that against the pump specs. Assuming you are using a March 809 it has a max flow rate of 6 gpm at zero head, so I would think that you should be able to easily get 3-4 gpm out of it taking into account some losses for restrictions and head.

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Old 12-13-2010, 02:30 PM   #4
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i've tried the recirc arm at the top, middle and bottom of the kettle.

as for hose, it's 1/2" hose, but each half is probably 6 feet long. this test was with water, so i don't believe the scrubbie is cloggged. i will try pumping into a bucket and see what my flow rate is.

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Old 12-13-2010, 03:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slakwhere View Post
i've tried the recirc arm at the top, middle and bottom of the kettle.

as for hose, it's 1/2" hose, but each half is probably 6 feet long. this test was with water, so i don't believe the scrubbie is cloggged. i will try pumping into a bucket and see what my flow rate is.
The problem with using 1/2" hose is that the ID of the barbed fittings is usually substantially smaller and causes a lot of undesirable resistance. The hoses are on the long side too, which is also a contributing factor. IME, restrictions on the suction side are considerably more detrimental than on the output side, but I'm not exactly clear on why that is the case.

The bucket test will tell the tale and leave no doubt. You could repeat the bucket test with the shortest and largest diameter hoses you have on hand to demonstrate the performance difference. It should be a dramatic difference.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:21 PM   #6
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yeah i saw the bobby_m video on the camlocks and his modifications (of course after i bought all my camlock stuff), so i was thinking it could be the restriction of the camlocks themselves...

i may just remove the recirc arm and give it a go that way, it's not very large diameter... then play with the hose, maybe shorten some things and see what gains i can make.

when i do the bucket fill test, should it be 5 gallons in the kettle until it goes into the bucket? or should i fill the kettle? will head pressure adjust this measurement?

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Old 12-13-2010, 03:33 PM   #7
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What is the size of your pickup tube? Is 1/2" like the rest of the system? Because a restriction here would have a big effect like Catt said. Also if the whirlpool arm is a smaller diameter (let's say 3/8") than the rest of the system I believe this would improve the speed of the whirlpool. Based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle This is how I have mine set up and it works great.

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Old 12-13-2010, 03:36 PM   #8
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the pick up tube and the rest of the gear came from bargain fittings... looks like he only sells 1/2" side pick up tubes. i am beginning to wonder if the scrubbie is affecting things on the pick up side. i'll give it a test today to whirlpool with the existing setup but not scrubbie (and do the bucket test both ways).

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Old 12-13-2010, 05:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slakwhere View Post
yeah i saw the bobby_m video on the camlocks and his modifications (of course after i bought all my camlock stuff), so i was thinking it could be the restriction of the camlocks themselves...

i may just remove the recirc arm and give it a go that way, it's not very large diameter... then play with the hose, maybe shorten some things and see what gains i can make.

when i do the bucket fill test, should it be 5 gallons in the kettle until it goes into the bucket? or should i fill the kettle? will head pressure adjust this measurement?
The head pressure in the kettle and elsewhere above the pump will affect the flow rate, but it will be relatively minor and will decrease as the water level falls. IOW, yes, but not a great deal and not worth worrying about for your approximate flow rate testing.

I'd fill the kettle completely and stop the pump when the bucket reaches the 5 gallon level or whatever other level you choose. If the hose is submerged in the receiving bucket, the flow will slow slightly as the water level rises in the bucket, but this will also be very minor and can be ignored for the approximate testing just like the water level in the kettle. You only want to get a general idea of what's going on and how much resistance the pump is working against. No need to go for extreme precision unless you want to, of course.
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:04 PM   #10
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k i will find a ballpark value and let you know

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