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**SP_Spiff** · 11-28-2009, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybird

As far as finding a welder I would ask 4 questions:
1 do you have a welder that can tig weld stainless?
2 are you willing to back gas the welds w/ argon?
3 will you do this for a price per weld, and what is that price. Or just name the price you think is reasonable and your willing to pay. Will you do this for $3 a weld?

Jaybird,

Thank you for the concise, cut through the BS, welding vendor questions. I have kegs to convert and got stuck today on the aluminum keg to SS coupling so your response simplified a possible complex/costly issue, as long as my area welder can handle it. Very helpful post for me.

Mike

Starting new AG setup so will check out your store...

**BrewBeemer** · 11-28-2009, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybird

As far as finding a welder I would ask 4 questions:
1 do you have a welder that can tig weld stainless?
2 are you willing to back gas the welds w/ argon?
3 will you do this for a price per weld, and what is that price. Or just name the price you think is reasonable and your willing to pay. Will you do this for $3 a weld?

I would recommend you drilling all the holes and fitting all couplings. This will save you a bunch of scrilla and you get them where you want them. Make them tight but they don't have to be "hammer them in tight" I mean they need to get in the hole but any welder can fill a small gap.

I wouldn't ask:
Can you all make a sanitary weld in stainless?
The reality is they probably can't, not many welders can. That truly is an art form and requires YEARS of practice. And you don't need a sanitary weld anywhere in your wort production system, so why bother asking? All it's going to do is make them lie to you and charge you more.
I wouldn't ask if they can weld 304 onto 316. Yes they can, if they tig weld stainless. why complicate things for them and make them feel like this is a big deal, which will only cost you more money.....why? It just will. I know welding shops brotha' and I know how they opperate. It's on a PITA basis. Make it seem easy and no big deal like anyone can do the job, and the price goes down.
Hope that helps
Cheers
Jay

Jay; if I asked any welder in my area to weld a coupling at $3 each I will wake up in the parking lot then to the hospital for stitches. My welding friends that is their business besides fab work wouldn't even look at you at $10 a coupling when they were already set up to Tig no assembly of jig alignment work or time required. One custom fab person only works with stainless and marine. Labors much higher in my area as well cost of living vs across the country.

Funkatollah · 11-28-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP_Spiff

got stuck today on the aluminum keg to SS coupling so your response simplified a possible complex/costly issue, as long as my area welder can handle it.

I will stop you there.. There is no way to weld aluminum to SS. If your kegs are aluminum, then you need aluminum fittings, stainless kegs, or go weldless.

Aluminum is a non-ferrous alloy whereas SS is a ferrous alloy (stainless STEEL).

Those questions and suggestions are right on, as well as, charging on a PITA basis. The more work you do up front, the faster and cheaper the job will get done.

**Dog House Brew** · 11-28-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewBeemer

Jay; if I asked any welder in my area to weld a coupling at $3 each I will wake up in the parking lot then to the hospital for stitches. My welding friends that is their business besides fab work wouldn't even look at you at $10 a coupling when they were already set up to Tig no assembly of jig alignment work or time required. One custom fab person only works with stainless and marine. Labors much higher in my area as well cost of living vs across the country.

There is no way I would weld couplings for $3. Filler rods and electric would cost you that. I'm always happy to help a fellow brewer out, but I would be hard pressed to find a shop to couplings for that. I would say you will find $15-$25 per coupling more in the shop range.

**BrewBeemer** · 11-28-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog House Brew

There is no way I would weld couplings for $3. Filler rods and electric would cost you that. I'm always happy to help a fellow brewer out, but I would be hard pressed to find a shop to couplings for that. I would say you will find $15-$25 per coupling more in the shop range.

That's the going price in my area also.
Hell they charge over $100 an hour to have a so called "tech" look at these new POS plastic cars before they add the part or labor.
All boils down to remember bread at 31 cents a loaf, milk 48 cents a half gallon and now look at those prices today.
Maybe Mr Chin Ho in China can do it for $3 a coupling not in the USA?

ReeseAllen · 11-28-2009, 08:43 PM

I've found that when it comes to skilled trades like welding/machining, you can get a rough estimate of how much it's going to cost you for labor like this: Estimate the hourly wage of the worker and how long it will take to do the job including setup time. Multiply those together, and then multiply by about 5. Overhead (rent, utilities, health insurance, administration, etc) is very expensive and the worker's wage only accounts for a fraction of the total cost of having that worker do a job. And then the shop's gotta try to make a profit on top of all of that.

Example: An experienced welder making $20/hr does a 30 minute job. $20 * 0.5 * 5 = $50.

**Derrin** · 11-28-2009, 11:04 PM

I'm not speaking for Jay, but the way I read that was 'ask if they'll back-gas for an additional price per weld, say $3' not weld each coupler for $3....

**Bobby_M** · 11-28-2009, 11:29 PM

For reference, I paid $130 for 9 couplings and adding tabs to the cutout tops for lids for three kegs.

**Jaybird** · 11-29-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP_Spiff

Jaybird,

Thank you for the concise, cut through the BS, welding vendor questions. I have kegs to convert and got stuck today on the aluminum keg to SS coupling so your response simplified a possible complex/costly issue, as long as my area welder can handle it. Very helpful post for me.

Mike

Starting new AG setup so will check out your store...

Glad I could shed some light

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewBeemer

Jay; if I asked any welder in my area to weld a coupling at $3 each I will wake up in the parking lot then to the hospital for stitches. My welding friends that is their business besides fab work wouldn't even look at you at $10 a coupling when they were already set up to Tig no assembly of jig alignment work or time required. One custom fab person only works with stainless and marine. Labors much higher in my area as well cost of living vs across the country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog House Brew

There is no way I would weld couplings for $3. Filler rods and electric would cost you that. I'm always happy to help a fellow brewer out, but I would be hard pressed to find a shop to couplings for that. I would say you will find $15-$25 per coupling more in the shop range.

The point is I like to start the negotiations on my terms not theirs and it seems to work for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derrin

I'm not speaking for Jay, but the way I read that was 'ask if they'll back-gas for an additional price per weld, say $3' not weld each coupler for $3....

I was really.

**Ohio-Ed** · 11-29-2009, 12:33 PM

Swagman: Thank you very much for the offer to help me with machining. I ordered the couplings and have them coming to my house. I like to futz around in the shop, so I will probably try to size them the hard way. I may send you a pm if I get overwelmed.

Bad67z: Thank you for offering to help me locate a welder/fabricator in my area. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Jaybird: Thank you for the insight on what I can look for to help quickly qualify a welder.

Encouragement, help and advise like yours ond other here are a big reason I just renewed my HBT subscription and became a Lifetime Supporter.

Thanks all.