Simple Brewing est. 2009 : The build

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Boerderij_Kabouter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
7,763
Reaction score
178
Location
Oconomowoc, Wisconsin
So my friend Jeremy has been wanting to start brewing for about a year. He has saved up some cash now and chosen a design. Here were some of the things we were kicking around:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/please-vote-quest-ultimate-portable-brewery-127359/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/countertop-brutus-20-a-131411/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brewstand-input-144970/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brouwerij-der-boerderij-kabouter-72118/

Initially he wanted to brew 10g at a time. However, his main requirements for the system are that it be completely portable because he likes to travel brew, it be cost conscious, and be well designed and easy to brew on. After some thought he decided 10g wasn't that important so we considered smaller batches. After seeing Jkarp's brewery, we had a good idea what we wanted to do.

So I designed the following system, based heavily on Brutus 20 and Jkarp's design. I call it the Twent-E2 and Jeremy is calling his brewery "simple".

Here is my first shot at a logo for him. This will likely change and I will update as it does.

Logo1.png


Here is the design for the brewery. It is two 1/4 bbl kegs. We selected the rubber coated type for insulation and because they look cool.

Storage mode:
Twent-E2_V04_Storage_mode_I.png


and assembled for brewing:
Twent-E2_V04_Brew_mode_I.png


A 2000kW water heater element is installed in the boil kettle (the top vessel), and is used to heat mash and sparge water, and to boil the wort. The lid for the boil kettle (not shown) will include a 25' copper coil and a stirrer. The coil will act as both a HERMS coil and as a chiller. The stirrer will be used to distribute heat during use as a HERMS and as a whirlpool during chilling.

Here is how the brewery will function on brewday:
Twent-E2.gif


All components are stainless except the copper coil. Here is a breakdown of everything including supplies for his startup brewery:
purchase_order4.bmp


If you want the spreadsheet format, send me a PM with your email address and I will forward the sheet to you.

Here is an assembly guide:
Parts_Chart_Twent-E2.bmp


The toolbox will include all controls (PID, element switch, pump switch, and stirrer switch) and the pump.

I think that is about it. I will update this thread as the build continues over the next month or so. We are shooting to be brewing at Simple Brewery before the new year!!!

:mug:
 
Totally...freaking...awesome. Nice job, BK. Jeremy is lucky to have a friend like you willing to help him out so much. Can't wait to see pix as this progresses.

Cheers.
 
If anyone sees something wrong here please let me know.

The SSR will have a heat sink attached and a 120 VAC muffin fan will be blowing through the box to cool the pump and the heat sink.

The little red circle by the PID in the figures is a panel mount for the RTD sensor.

Thanks for looking.

Front view of box:
Control_Toolbox_I.png


Top view of box. The yellow switch will be for the pump, the green for stirrer, and the red for the element (PID).
Control_Toolbox_II.png


Back view. Everything will be connected via jump extension cords, this way it will pack down easier.
Control_Toolbox_III.png


Here is the wiring diagram:
Control_Box_Wiring.bmp



Cheers! Jeremy and I are getting together tomorrow, so maybe he will buy some more stuff and we can start soon!!! :ban:
 
Also, I got a quote to build this stand for $289... redick. Custom cut metal for it from Metal Express was only $64.00 and there material prices are normally really high. I am hoping I can find someone with a welder, otherwise he is going to have a wooden stand for a while.
 
I have no idea if the box will work or not, but it looks frickin' awesome!

What do you mean? Like maybe the box is a bad idea, or that you don't have experience with the wiring of this stuff?

What concerns would you have with the tool box? I haven't used a tool box control box thingy before so I want to know people's opinions before Jeremy starts buying stuff for it and I look like an idiot when it fails.

On face value it seems like a cool idea. I was inspired by the guys with pumps mounted in the tool box.
 
I love the idea. Life should be simple like this. I am subscribing to this thread. One day I will do this, but with 10g capacity.
 
Thanks! Updating to 240 would be pretty similar, but you would need 240VAC power.

UPDATE: I updated the wiring diagram to include the proper fuses (I think) and the actual wire routing via terminal blocks.
 
A couple of suggestions based on my (in-progress) build of a jkarp-type system:

1) You will probably want the SSR heatsink outside of the box. Mine is outside of my control box and it still gets to about 150F while controlling a 120V 2kW element. I don't think a muffin fan will be sufficient to offset the heat of the SSR and the pump in the same box.

2) It's tough to tell the scale of the box, but the wiring will take more space than you think, particularly the 12AWG stuff (for 20A).

3) You might want the PID always powered (or on a swtich separate from the element switch). I was originally going to wire mine as you did, but changed my mind and am glad I did; it's nice to have the PID live to get temp readings without having the elements on.

Having said all of that, it's an awesome design. Your friend will be very happy.

Message me if you need any sources for various parts.
 
So Jeremy ordered a ton last night. All the components for the control box are ordered along with most of the stainless fittings and the stainless lids. Next week we can start building!!!

:rockin:

Sockmonkey-

1. I believe the heat sink should be fine in an enclosure. It is designed to be used as such. Thanks for the advice though, we'll keep an eye on it.

2. The box will be a standard 19" metal toolbox, that is a ton of space for how much is going in it. I have wired stuff WAY tighter than this. I will take pics for everyone to see how it goes and how neat we can make it.

3. Good advice about the PID. I got the same advice from Coderage who I sent my wiring diagram to. We will be moving the PID/Element switch to the switching leg of the PID so that the element may be turned off without powering-down the PID.

Coderage kindly updated my drawing into a more friendly wiring diagram. I tried to lay mine out like the box will be arranged but I don't thnk it worked that well :D

Control_Box_Wiring_II.bmp


Keep the advice coming. It is great to expand my knowledge and hopefully catch some pitfalls of the design!!!!

:mug:
 
Jeremy working away...
CIMG3492.JPG


Parts laid out
CIMG3497.JPG


Positioning the PID controller
CIMG3493.JPG


PID installed in the toolbox
CIMG3494.JPG


Drilling pilot holes for the switches
CIMG3496.JPG


Finishing the switch mounting holes with a step bit
CIMG3500.JPG


Last one...
CIMG3501.JPG


Left to right: element switch, panel mount RTD connector, PID
CIMG3503.JPG


Element switch, panel mount RTD connector, PID
CIMG3504.JPG


Laying out the inside: pump, terminal blocks, fuse holders, SSR on heatsink, fan
CIMG3509.JPG



continued................
 
Another shot of the inside of the box. You can see how the pump is fully within the box, the connections changed a bit but that is shown later.
CIMG3511.JPG


Finished box (we still need to solder the panel mount RTD connector to the PID)
CIMG3589.JPG


CIMG3590.JPG


Here you can see the pump connections. The inlet is out the side and the outlet is out the front. A ball valve connected to a tri-clover is used during brewing to control flow, but can be removed to keep the box compact during storage or transport.
CIMG3591.JPG


Here is a shot of the back, you can see the fan inlet and the power connections. Left-to-right: Power in, element power, stirrer power, general outlet
CIMG3593.JPG


Here is the fan inlet. It is the shape of an "S" like in Jeremy's Simple Brew Logo, he will be getting a white decal to make it more clear.
CIMG3594.JPG


A better shot of the receptacles. They are splash resistent and we got them from home depot.
CIMG3595.JPG


Another rear end shot.
CIMG3596.JPG


continued.............
 
Here are some inside shots.
CIMG3598.JPG


CIMG3600.JPG


CIMG3601.JPG


CIMG3602.JPG


CIMG3603.JPG


And..... POWER!
CIMG3604.JPG


CIMG3605.JPG


CIMG3606.JPG


Everything works as far as we can tell so far. We need to solder up the panel mount RTD, then get the kettles done and start testing. So far, I think it looks better than we hoped. This is going to be a great little system.
 
I do have one question. Are the LED switches supposed to always be illuminated when the power is on? I thought they would only illuminate when the switch was turned to ON, but these are always illuminated when power is supplied to the box. It still looks awesome, I just want to be sure we wired them correctly.
 
Looks good mate.

Yes, they will always illuminate. To get them to illuminate in the on position yuou have two options.

If it is 120v circuit than you can just run a wire from the load side of the normally open switch to the 120v side of the lamp.

For your PID Disable switch you will have to put a second normally open contact on it and use it to gate 120v to the lamp.

I can't tell by looking at the pics but is the toolbox grounded? If not it needs to be.
 
It is coming together nicely BK. Very nice design. My only comment, and it is only good housekeeping, is to clean up the wiring rats nest in the tool box. No doubt it will work as is, but it will just look nicer.
 
Looks very nice but I'm just curious about your "Power In"...
Looks like you are using a standard outlet, doesn't that mean you will need a cord with a male connector on each end? Could be hazardous? I'm not being critical, I'm dealing with the same thing on the panel I am building. Recessed plugs and/or locking connectors can be expensive.

What's the opinion of the HBT experts on this?

Ed
 
Looks very nice but I'm just curious about your "Power In"...
Looks like you are using a standard outlet, doesn't that mean you will need a cord with a male connector on each end? Could be hazardous? I'm not being critical, I'm dealing with the same thing on the panel I am building. Recessed plugs and/or locking connectors can be expensive.

What's the opinion of the HBT experts on this?

Ed

That was my question, too. Even if you are very careful, it seems like a bad idea. I'd prefer to see a short power cord, and use an extension cord for reach, or a computer style socket, like these:
Power-Socket-5-.jpg

Nonetheless, I love the idea and the compactness of this toolbox.
 
Looks very nice but I'm just curious about your "Power In"...
Looks like you are using a standard outlet, doesn't that mean you will need a cord with a male connector on each end? Could be hazardous? I'm not being critical, I'm dealing with the same thing on the panel I am building. Recessed plugs and/or locking connectors can be expensive.

What's the opinion of the HBT experts on this?

Ed


Big no no, I didn't catch that.

BK, either put a recessed male connector on the box or a pig tail with a female receptacle. Twistlocks are worth the extra cash IMHO.
 
That or you can leave it the way it is to baffle anyone who tries to use it while you're not around :D

Recessed male plugs are really cheap though... :)
 
Those standard IEC inlets are only rated to 15 amps. I believe this box will draw a bit more. There are 20 amp rated IEC inlets, but they do cost a fair amount.

20_amp_IEC_socket.png


20_amp%20IEC.png


The hard wire to a male outlet is fine, but make sure you use a good strain relief on the toolbox. You should also make sure all your AC cables are terminated in a 20 amp male connector.

yhst-54001713726147_2077_21407652


I will suggest you might want to add some additional venting to the tool box to allow a cross flow.

The big thing I am curious about is how you intend to get a full five gallons out of a 7.5 gallon brew kettle. For me, I have to start with roughly 8.3 gallons in my kettle to allow for evaporation and transfer losses.

Good luck with the build.
 
Why is it dangerous to use a female receptacle for the power? We are just going to make a male to male power cord for his power connection... what is wrong with that?

The box is grounded.

The wiring is a bit crazy but I had a bunch of solid core wire laying around and we used that instead of buying stranded. As such, it is difficult to make it look nice... oh well. Maybe we can spend some time wrestling it but that will be after the system is finished if at all.
 
If you un-plug the box, before you unplug the cord from the wall, you have exposed live 120v "prongs"
When you look at a cord laying on the floor, if you see the prongs, you usually assume it's safe.

Ed
 
If you un-plug the box, before you unplug the cord from the wall, you have exposed live 120v "prongs"
When you look at a cord laying on the floor, if you see the prongs, you usually assume it's safe.

Ed

Ahhh.... That makes sense. Hmmmm. Maybe we will have to change it, or I will just tell him to be careful. Thanks!

I want to be able to buy one of these boxes assembled. Could be very marketable.
I have considered marketing them once we have this one up and running and tested. The cost for the full brewery including some profit would likely be $1,000-1,200. The box alone would be about $550-650. Do you think there would be a market for that?
 
One more thing to consider. If someone plugged the line voltage into the wrong receptacle would it backfeed and foul up the PID? I did not study the wiring very well, might not be a problem. But having a "Hot" plug would not be good. Should defiantly change that.
 
The big thing I am curious about is how you intend to get a full five gallons out of a 7.5 gallon brew kettle. For me, I have to start with roughly 8.3 gallons in my kettle to allow for evaporation and transfer losses.

Good luck with the build.

You boil off 3+ gallons in a standard boil??? You may want to turn down the heat as that is pretty excessive. I boil off just under a gallon and a half in my current rig. Also, this will be for four gallon finished batches.

Any more links to male receptacles would be great!
 
You boil off 3+ gallons in a standard boil??? You may want to turn down the heat as that is pretty excessive. I boil off just under a gallon and a half in my current rig. Also, this will be for four gallon finished batches.

Any more links to male receptacles would be great!


Here's an example. This one happens to be a 20a twist loc...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Hubbell-23...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3357e66ed1

The boil off also depends on the size/shape of your BK. The larger diameter, the more surface is exposed for evaporation. But I agree, 3+ gallons seems to be alot.

Good Luck.
 
I don't boil off 3 + gallons. Evaporation is roughly 2.25 gallons. I do brew at 5280 feet.
0.625 gallons stays behind in my kettle along with trub.

Brewstand_Trubpile.JPG


I usually put 5.5 to 5.7 gallons goes into my fermenter. I have roughly another 0.4 gallons of loss in transfer off yeast into secondary and then into a keg. I have measured all my losses and incorporated them into my calculations so I do end up with a full 5 gallons into my keg.
 
This thread got me to register mostly because I don't want anyone to die. Please for the love of your mother do two things before you use this. First do not use a male male plug to plug this in, a live prong on the floor is asking for trouble, next this is going to be in a wet area and I see no GFCI outlets on this box which is another way to go poof. So if you use this make sure you atleast plug it into a GFCI outlet in your house

Also it is hard to tell from the pics but that wire looks like it is not 12ga or larger which is not rated in an enclosed area for 20A. Also most house circuits have 15A breakers so if you fused correctly you may have trouble having breakers pop when fed from one source. Just some friendly advice who spent alot of money getting an engineering degree
 
Also it is hard to tell from the pics but that wire looks like it is not 12ga or larger which is not rated in an enclosed area for 20A. Also most house circuits have 15A breakers so if you fused correctly you may have trouble having breakers pop when fed from one source. Just some friendly advice who spent alot of money getting an engineering degree

Thanks for the concern but 14 AWG is rated for 20 amps. The enclosure is well ventilated and will remain well within the insulations rating. The major source of heat in the enclosure is the SSR and TBH, they don't generate that much heat at the rates an Auber PID switches them.

Most lighting and receptacle circuits are 20amps.

GFCIs are great, don't get me wrong but, they are not always practical. March pumps have a tendency to leak enough current to the chassis to pop them. That is if you have the chassis grounded like you are supposed to. If I had to choose between a well grounded system or a gfci, I'll pick grounding.

Thank you for being concerned enough to register, and welcome to the board ;).
 
As a newbie to the board I will refrain from arguments I was just trying to get him to codes especially if he tries to sell one to anyone else. Thanks for the welcome
 
As a newbie to the board I will refrain from arguments I was just trying to get him to codes especially if he tries to sell one to anyone else. Thanks for the welcome
You were right about the 14awg. 15 amps... Been a long day. Any how, most residential is done with 12awg thus the 20 amp.. but I had in my head that is was 14awg.
 
Back
Top