Side-By-Side Fridge - Fermentation Chamber (with heat)/Keezer combo?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

jtkratzer

Senior Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
2,803
Reaction score
41
Location
Lititz
I've seen threads where the entire fridge is gutted into one big fermentation chamber with heat. I've seen others where the freezer side turned into a kegerator/keezer with the fridge side for fermentation.

I'd like to set one up with four ball locks on the freezer side and be able to fit four fermentors (5 gallons) on the fridge side. I need to be able to heat the fridge side a bit in the winter as the fridge will be in the garage and the winter temps can get down to the single digits. It's probably not that cold in the garage, but it's definitely cold enough to need heat.

I'd like to be able to keep the kegs in the 40s or so for serving and have fermentation temps range from the 40s-72 or so. Is that reasonable?

Just trying to figure out if using heat in the winter time when fermenting an ale is going to be a constant fight against the temp on the kegerator side.
 
Check out my build in my signature. I havent added heat but I think that with the addition of another controller you could add heat and it would not affect the freezer side at all. Hell, you may get lucky and the heat from the fermentation may be all that you need.
 
Thanks, I saw this last night, but hadn't read all the threads I opened looking for ideas. I replied on your thread as well.

Looks a lot like what I want to do. Is there any particular reason why I see a lot more LOVE controllers vs Auber PIDs? Doesn't Auber make controllers that can handle heating and cooling on the same unit.
 
Thanks, I saw this last night, but hadn't read all the threads I opened looking for ideas. I replied on your thread as well.

Looks a lot like what I want to do. Is there any particular reason why I see a lot more LOVE controllers vs Auber PIDs? Doesn't Auber make controllers that can handle heating and cooling on the same unit.

I do not know much about the Auder controls but Love makes many models including one that does heating and cooling. The unit I used in this build is one of those units, but instead of controlling a heating function it controls the pc fan. When sp2, the refrigerator/right side, calls for cooling the fan turns on. This function sp2 could be used for heating instead but in my build I need it to control the fan. I would need an additional single stage controller to add a heating element if I ever need to raise the temperature higher then what it could attain from the natural heat generated during the fermentation process.
 
I just talked to Auber Instruments and they recommended the SYL-2342 controller. I would need two controllers to do two different cooling temps and heat. The guy I talked to said an incandescent light bulb is a commonly used source for heating that the 200 watt output should be able to easily raise the temperature inside of a fridge to 100* above ambient temp. I don't need that much, but that would definitely cover me to 75* for any temp I've ever seen in Lancaster, Pa.

It would be nice if there was a controller that displayed the cooling set point, heat set point, as well as current temp without having to cycle through the display.

Even if it's just an LED, I'd like to have an indicator of when the heating process is active.
 
The two SYL-2342s and thermocouples are in. Still looking for that fridge. Got the green light from SWMBO to order the rest of the stuff I need for kegging (regulator, lines, disconnects, faucets, etc) for my birthday.
 
I have converted a side by side also. I am only able to get 3 cornies in the freezer side but mine is an older (80's) model with much less cuft than is available now. I use either a fermwrap or if I am lagering multiple fermenters a small space heater that can one can get for less than $15. The temps that you are looking for are easily obtainable. I used the cheap eBay controllers that are featured in many posts. Although they read in C they do offer heating and cooling capabilities.
 
Wasn't trying to rush ya. I love watching a build in progress, that and it helps me refine my decisions as to what I'll do when it's finally my turn.
This was more of a way to prod ya to post pictures and get my subscribed to the thread :)
 
Here is my fridge sans shelves and all loose internals except for the moveable shelves on the fridge side. Based on the paperwork, I'm thinking this jammer is from 1983.

image-2650540305.jpg


image-2627273989.jpg


image-2301773450.jpg


image-197866487.jpg


image-2304288405.jpg
 
wow, thats almost exactly my fridge!!!(minus the water/ice door) if you need any help let me know.. I did a thread on my build. you can check it out.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/side-side-build-keezer-fermentation-276954/

Yeah, I need to get started on this project, right now I just have a ton of beer in bottles and a keg on the fridge side, but I'm going to have two more kegs to put in there shortly.

Your thread looks great. That's really what I was looking to do. Thanks.
 
Time to work on this...took a break from most of the brewing hobby to deal with a bunch of other stuff and after getting very close to finishing my Brew Magic NG to e-HERMS conversion, I need to get after this as well.

Trying to decide how I want to chop this fridge as I picked up a vintage GE fridge for the kegerator. There's room for 3 ball locks in the GE, but no room for bottles.

The new system is going to produce 10-12 gallons of wort to ferment per batch, so...do I chop the fridge and make the freezer part a fridge for bottles and the fridge side for fermentation, or cut the center wall out and make the entire fridge a fermentation chamber?

I'm thinking I leave the two sides split. I was planning on having different temps on each side. That would allow me to ferment lagers and ales at the same time and/or keep some bottles cold on the lager side of the chamber.
 
Alright...working on getting a plan for the wiring. I'm going to get the freezer side done first as I'm brewing tomorrow and I want to have temp control for the two weeks I'm going to be out of town without asking my very a lot pregnant wife to manage a swamp cooler.

I'm going to tap the hot incoming from the outlet prior to the compressor to power the PIDs. The freezer side PID (eventually used for lagering) will control the compressor using the internal relay. The fridge side, for fermenting ales, if I need separate temps between the two sides, will control two fans on the alarm high side to recirculate cooler air from the freezer side into the fridge side. The alarm low will power the light bulb to kick on and heat the fridge side.

Seems to make sense. I need to check the back of the fridge to find out what size fuse I need to use to protect the wiring and PIDs on the supply to power the PIDs.

Seem like that's a good way to accomplish this?
 
Here are a couple pictures of the parts I need to deal with to get power and control cooling:

Power coming in...need to tap into this to power the PIDs. I'm going to pull that box out and see how the wiring is set up to power the fan that cools the compressor:
a9ed7606.jpg


Compressor...easy, assuming red is hot, white is neutral. Going to check that shortly.
db71d265.jpg


And the cooling fan. The wiring for this meets the power cord in a box on the underside of the fridge:
27e04d20.jpg
 
Pictures of the wiring in that box...
f4250367.jpg


7029b644.jpg


I need to get to the back of the thermostat and see what color wires are being used for that and disconnect them.


Existing ventilation from the freezer to the fridge side at the top:
94f927ed.jpg


And at the bottom:
3dc30edd.jpg


There's a manually adjustable baffle on the freezer side called "air control" and it has an effect on the frost level according to the label.

I'm going to plug the fridge back in and check for a blower in the top vent. I'm also going to check for continuity across the leads for the fan and the compressor to make sure they're tied together.
 
Now that all of this extra nonsense is out of the way:
5b178783.jpg


I'm left with an empty side-by-side and a lot more wiring in both sides than what appears RO come from the back side with all the power.
af2c4495.jpg
 
Bummer...no blower/fan in the upper vent from the freezer to the fridge, just a bit of duct work from the coil in the back/bottom of the freezer up to the vent and across. Looks like the bottom vent is a return to the fan in the coil.

I plugged the fridge in to see what was still hot and nothing kicked on at all, which is what I expected as the thermostat should be acting like a switch to run the compressor.

Now...I have all this wiring that went the thermostat and what looks like a humidity sensor...what do I do with it?
 
After stripping off the wiring for the water systems (drinking, ice machine), I'm left with this. The unlabeled red goes to the fridge side.
Wiring-1.jpg


In the fridge side, the black and yellow are hot.
142ea16d.jpg


When I jump the red and black in the fridge, the compressor and fan kick on. I ran it for a few minutes to make sure everything is cooling properly and it's below 60* in a hurry. The red I jumped with the black hot has to go back to the main power terminals to distribute juice to the compressor and fan. If the PID will act as a switch to close those contacts when the temp gets too warm, I should be in business.
4d010479.jpg


On the freezer side, only the yellow is hot. There's only yellow, white, blue, and ground.
 
The only thing I'm concerned about is the hot yellow. I don't know where it picks up 120V from because there are no yellow wires where the power comes in from the power cord, and then, out of nowhere, a hot yellow is coming through the fridge and freezer wall.

No idea where the orange wires go. The come out of the fridge wall and I don't see them anywhere else on the appliance. I'm guessing they have something to do with the thermostat or humidity sensor...
 
Andy @ Auber Instruments is thinking I need to use a contactor with a 120V coil to close the connection that I jumped to power the compressor and fan.

I can't find any information about the wattage of the compressor and fan to determine if the relay output of the PID can support it or if a contactor is necessary.
 
Andy called back and thinks I'll be good without a contactor. I'm going out to grab a few things for a remodeling project and then I should be set to get moving on this.
 
I'm going to try to run the power to the PID with the yellow. I'll put the black on 9, neutral on 10, and the red for the load on 7. Thermocouple is hooked up where it's supposed to be.

I'm hoping this will at least get my freezer side to the temp I want as I'm not worried about heat at this time of the year.

I definitely want to get the entire project complete with the PIDs properly mounted, but all I'm concerned about right now is getting the compressor to cool the entire unit to something between 62-70* F. When I get back from a 2-week road trip, I'll finish the computer fans to circulate air from the freezer, light bulb for heat, and mount everything.
 
COOL function figured out the way I want...11 is the setting for cooling, alarm suppression, and Fahrenheit.

However...my yellow hot is not always hot...so it's cycling the PID on and off in short intervals. I'm going to jump the yellow and red and see if that kicks the fan/compressor on.

I need the black constant hot to power the PID. I tried using that wire to power the PID on terminal 9, and jump it to terminal 8 for the relay, but as soon as the PID wanted to kick the compressor on, it blew the 1 amp fast blow fuse.

Out to see what happens with that yellow.
 
No bueno on jumping the yellow with the red to kick the compressor on. It has 120V on it when the fridge is plugged in, but for some reason, it's not going to play along with me.

Back to the drawing board. I was hoping to use all the existing wiring without having to feed stuff through the walls/doors. I'm about to pull the water line through the wall and run a wire through that hole or try to feed a wire through the water line without pulling it out, maintaining the seal.
 
There are two black wires bonded together providing a hot from the main power terminals. I split the two of them and one is in fact hot when the fridge is plugged in and the other black is not.

I tried using the hot to power the PID and the other on the relay output, but the relay is a dry switch, it's not powered through the PID. When I jumped terminals 8 and 9, I blew another fuse. So, the 1 amp fuse is not enough to run the compressor and PID on the same hot. I'm starting to think I need to run a separate line to supply the PID and use the constant hot inside the fridge on the relay output.
 
I ran a separate hot from the terminal block where the cord connects. I cut the female connector off the hot side of the power cord and replaced it with a male connector. I connected my new hot and a short length of wire to connect the power cord back to its original spade. Those two were connected and crimped into a single female, insulate connector (only type I had that would fit two 14 gauge wires in). I connected that female to the male I replaced on the power cord and the other length of wire I connected back to the original hot spade.

I ran the new hot to power the PID through the water lines (removed the tanks and all the water/ice making stuff) to go through the wall of the fridge and protect the wire on the back side of the fridge without having to make new holes.

Seems to be working now. I set the PID to cool down to 68* as a test and that's where I'll ferment my Centennial Blonde after I brew tomorrow. If I get up tomorrow morning and the fridge is holding at 68*, I'll be happy.

EDIT: Just went out to check and things are looking good. And at some point this weekend...some shelves to support two fermenters stacked.
 
Still holding at 68. Changed a few settings to keep the compressor from cycling on and off at a ridiculous rate. 30 second run time and a +/- 2 degree temp swing before it shuts off.

Looking good for tomorrow to maintain temps on my first all grain brew on the new eHERMS.
 
The only thing I'm concerned about is the hot yellow. I don't know where it picks up 120V from because there are no yellow wires where the power comes in from the power cord, and then, out of nowhere, a hot yellow is coming through the fridge and freezer wall.

No idea where the orange wires go. The come out of the fridge wall and I don't see them anywhere else on the appliance. I'm guessing they have something to do with the thermostat or humidity sensor...

Yellow is the power to the interior light and comes from the switch above the door

Orange wires are the Mullion and Stile heaters.. orange/Blk goes to both of those heaters. Orange alone goes to the other half of the Mullion heater and is switched (read power savings) its used in humid environments your choice.
 
Now that all of this extra nonsense is out of the way:

I'm left with an empty side-by-side and a lot more wiring in both sides than what appears RO come from the back side with all the power.
af2c4495.jpg
Now you have a whole new problem i believe.. Since you removed all the fridges ability to control the defrost, your left with a freezer that will simply freeze and eventually freeze up solid with ice and then it will no longer function..(i made the same error on my build) Your gonna have to reinstall the "useless" stuff my friend.. The only thing you should cut out on this fridge is the Thermostat.. The fridge needs a defrost.. You wont know it immed, but after a week and the coils freeze up solid your gonna need help fixing that prob.. but I know what your thinking...Im not freezing anything.. I just want to hold me beer around 40 degrees.. The coils dont operate at different temps and then melt clean.. they freeking get supa supa cold and then turn off.. the when the compressor is on they get supa supa cold again over and over, in time ice will freeze over them from acculumated frozen water and your coils will be extremely inefficient.. I hope that doesnt happen and certainly will not if your just fermenting around 65-70f,, but if you lager or serve beer your gonna have probs..
 
You need that Defrost timer.. it will turn on a heater every 8 hrs to warm up the coils to around 54 degrees.. the freezer side will rise a few degrees but its not a big deal to 5 gal of beer (thermal capacity) see my pics.. I took these with only the defrost timer removed (unplugged) and you can see the old thermo there.. After I made this error, i put the timer back in a used it to do its job. but I also spliced off that Orange wire to control my Compressor (thru the PID) because You DO NOT want the compressor on while the defrost heater is on (fight against each other and go no where) keep on posting where you decide to go with this.. but i can tell you 100% we have the exact same fridge guts and I know this baby

PS.. you see the orange wire going into the thermo? thats the hot from the defrost timer.. It kills power to the Compressor when the heater is on.. No worries, your PID will call for cold and even switch the switch on.. but nothing will happen during this time period as PIN 8 on the Auber will not be currently power (energized)..

fridgeguts.jpg


fridgeschematic.jpg
 
This it?

1be1c334.jpg


The terminals on the back are numbered 2 PK, 1 BK, 4 OR, 3 R. I'm assuming those correspond to insulation color of the wire to connect to them. I'll have to go out to the fridge and check that out.

That will give the fridge enough time to warm up and time for the PID to do an effective auto tune, as it's been working on that for about 8 or 9 hours and not complete.
 
This is starting to click...not the concept of the defroster, but the wiring. The socket connector is what plugs into the defrost timer. I need to rewire that to work properly and tie those two black wires back together. Those are the wires I split to run my compressor. From there, I can use the orange wire and red on my PID to run the compressor and having the defrost timer in place will prevent the PID from kicking the compressor on while the heater in running. And for a neutral for the PID, I just have to splice into the white wire for the light bulb, which is what I have now, but it would be nice to have the light back in there.

I think I've experience a light bulb.
 
Well, since I sort of hacked up the wiring, just a little, before getting help to figure all this out, here's what I think I need to do. I'm not interested in rebuilding the socket since I don't have those uninsulated connectors to work with that kind of socket. So, this is what I think needs to happen:

Uninsulated orange and red wires on terminals 7 and 8 of the PID for the compressor. Tie the two black wires back together into a single female connector. Cut the orange, red, and pink off the socket and put female connectors on those. Connect the four wires to the defrost timer. Jump the neutral from my PID to a female connector to connect the light bulb to the door open/close switch. Insulated orange and orange/black to the power savings switch. Remount the housing for the light, defrost timer, and switch.

Keep in mind, I split the hot from the power cord to pull my own separate power supply for the PID and put a 1 amp inline fuse on it, so the only thing I need from the fridge is the white neutral, and the two wires for the PID to close the NO contacts to run the compressor.

142ea16d.jpg


That sounds like it gets the PID power, properly controls the compressor while having the defrost timer do its job and override the PID when the defrost heater is on.

Again, confirm that sounds right.
 
Back
Top