Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > DIY Projects > Running hot wort through an immersion coil in cold water to cool ?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-17-2013, 09:51 PM   #1
LoloMT7
Feedback Score: 22 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Missoula, Montana
Posts: 1,862
Liked 1248 Times on 666 Posts
Likes Given: 3338

Default Running hot wort through an immersion coil in cold water to cool ?

So I've been thinking I want to build a tiered stand to put my equipment on for brew day. I don't have a HLT and don't have any desire to use one. I would rather batch sparge or just ladle in Hot water (my fly sparge method)

At any rate I would like to get away from using my immersion wort chiller and would like to try another method. I have a counter flow chiller but was wondering if I would be able to get away without using it. Would something like the following chill the wort enough? I'm curious if anyone has tried something like this. That is using the immersion chiller coil in reverse in a sense. By submerging it in ice water and letting hot wort run through it slowly to chill. Any thoughts on why or why not this setup will work? Maybe a small pump to circulate the cold water in the bucket would be needed? Thanks all.

tiered-idea.jpg  
__________________

"Here's to you and here's to me and if we should ever disagree f* you and here's to me." My good Friend pasted away in 2004. In memory of Nick M.

LoloMT7 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2013, 09:56 PM   #2
Aceandover
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kingston, Ma
Posts: 26
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

i made one this weekend and tried it. 25' of 3/8" copper dropped temp by 50 with one pass so i think it was just to short so i think im gonna make it into an immersion or a counterflow chiller

__________________
Aceandover is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2013, 10:05 PM   #3
jbaysurfer
Former future HOF Brewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 2,343
Liked 443 Times on 337 Posts
Likes Given: 716

Default

You can do that and I have, and it works well, but cleaning the inside of a coil is going to be a job you don't want to half ass...ever.... Also, one pass isn't going to cool your wort to pitching temp in the drawing you have shown.

You'll have to use your pump to recirculate the wort through the bucket. It also use a metric ton of ice if you try to cool the wort with ice in the bucket before the wort gets down to a manageable temperature...like 100F or so.

The way I cooled using the method you're asking about is to chill the wort with the IC down to 100F, then recirculate in through the ice water bucket til it got to pitching temp...agitating the ice and replenishing it when necessary.

I have tried them all (including CFC). I use IC and a pond pump in an ice water bucket to recirculate the cold water through the IC until I'm at pitch temp. I also whirlpool the wort with my brew pump to promote faster cooling in the brew kettle.

__________________

First Brew was thanksgiving 2011, I'm at 96 batches and counting (as of 8/31/2014), and ran out of room in my signature to list them all.

jbaysurfer is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2013, 10:07 PM   #4
day_trippr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Stow, MA
Posts: 10,353
Liked 1238 Times on 998 Posts

Default

You definitely want to keep the cooling water moving, for the same reason you want to keep hot wort moving in a kettle with an IC. In the absence of movement a very pronounced high temperature region develops around the tubing that will cut the cooling efficiency in a huge way. You can test the effect with an IC by holding the outflow end while leaving hot wort sitting, then giving the wort a stir.

As for cleaning it'd likely be no worse than cleaning a CFC, and probably easier than cleaning a plate chiller...

Cheers!

__________________
day_trippr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2013, 10:09 PM   #5
MuddyCreek
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MuddyCreek's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Butte, MT
Posts: 528
Liked 145 Times on 94 Posts
Likes Given: 109

Default

Lots of folks use a setup more or less like this one. There are two problems with it (which are really just symptoms of one problem.)

First, you probably have to make a few passes with the wort to get it totally down to pitching temperature and you may find you need to add ice and cold water to the Cold Liquor Tank now and then to keep it cool.

Second, if you are recirculating your wort through the chiller, you need to be certain that you've done a good job of sterilizing.

And there's a third problem... any time you start pumping your wort through a chilling conduit you need to be prepared for some additional wort loss. It's just really hard to recover ALL your wort from the pump, chiller line etc.

I used to have one of these "reverse chiller coils" and it's sitting on a shelf in my garage. Ultimately, you're going to probably be happier with a standard immersion chiller that you can hook up to your kitchen sink. You boil the chiller IN the wort for the last few minutes of the boil so it is sterilized. If you're really really paranoid about cleanliness and "clean flavor" you can boil the chiller in another pot of clean water instead of in the wort. (After you've finished, and cleaned everything up you should boil it AGAIN in clean water to clean and sterilize it for your next dunking boiling wort.)

This way you can dunk the chiller into your brew kettle, crank up the cold water in your sink and watch as the chiller happily drops your wort temp down to somewhere in the zone of 65 degrees or so. (Depends on how cold your tap water gets, really.)

Where this doesn't work is places like S. Nevada and Arizona where the tap water never gets below 80. (Why those crazy people live there, I don't know...) You however live in cool Montana, not too far from me, btw (Butte).

Lolo, if you DO want to go forward with your heat-exchange chiller (that's what it really is...) it does give you some pretty cool options going forward. But THAT's a whole nother thread and starts to talk about HERM style brewing.

__________________
Muddy Creek Brewery - Opening Fall 2014
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Come See Us At: The Original Festival, Butte Montana - September 12-13

Come See Us At: Butte-Toberfest, Butte Montana - September 20

Come See Us At: Montana Brewers Association Fall Festival, Missoula Montana - October 11

MuddyCreek is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2013, 10:10 PM   #6
jbaysurfer
Former future HOF Brewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 2,343
Liked 443 Times on 337 Posts
Likes Given: 716

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by day_trippr View Post

As for cleaning it'd likely be no worse than cleaning a CFC, and probably easier than cleaning a plate chiller...

Cheers!
Very true. I think I'm just a K.I.S.S. kinda guy and the ease of cleaning/sanitizing my IC trumps all the other cleaning regimens.
__________________

First Brew was thanksgiving 2011, I'm at 96 batches and counting (as of 8/31/2014), and ran out of room in my signature to list them all.

jbaysurfer is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2013, 10:15 PM   #7
MuddyCreek
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MuddyCreek's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Butte, MT
Posts: 528
Liked 145 Times on 94 Posts
Likes Given: 109

Default

Above = True.

I use a CFC and there's some serious love-hate going on there.

__________________
Muddy Creek Brewery - Opening Fall 2014
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Come See Us At: The Original Festival, Butte Montana - September 12-13

Come See Us At: Butte-Toberfest, Butte Montana - September 20

Come See Us At: Montana Brewers Association Fall Festival, Missoula Montana - October 11

MuddyCreek is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2013, 10:17 PM   #8
jbaysurfer
Former future HOF Brewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 2,343
Liked 443 Times on 337 Posts
Likes Given: 716

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyCreek View Post
First, you probably have to make a few passes with the wort to get it totally down to pitching temperature and you WILL find you need to add ice and cold water to the Cold Liquor Tank now and then to keep it cool.
I agree with everything in your post, but I would change this one little word.

For a typical 5 G batch of ale though, you could accomplish it with 2 water changes (in the cool liquor tank)...the first should just be straight tap water, don't waste your ice. recirc to cool it down to 120-130. Then do it again with fresh tap water and ice. Agitate. It may take a 3rd water change depending on how fast you lose your ice in 120-130 temps.
__________________

First Brew was thanksgiving 2011, I'm at 96 batches and counting (as of 8/31/2014), and ran out of room in my signature to list them all.

jbaysurfer is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2013, 10:20 PM   #9
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,114
Liked 4483 Times on 3261 Posts
Likes Given: 870

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbaysurfer View Post
I agree with everything in your post, but I would change this one little word.

For a typical 5 G batch of ale though, you could accomplish it with 2 water changes (in the cool liquor tank)...the first should just be straight tap water, don't waste your ice. recirc to cool it down to 120-130. Then do it again with fresh tap water and ice. Agitate. It may take a 3rd water change depending on how fast you lose your ice in 120-130 temps.
I tried this once.

Once.

It took 42 pounds of ice to chill 5 gallons of wort from boiling to 70 degrees this way.

I wouldn't recommend it. A wort chiller is a great pre-chiller for a CFC, though!
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-17-2013, 10:22 PM   #10
chocotaco
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Clemente
Posts: 828
Liked 123 Times on 75 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Just curious - how is this easier to clean than a counterflow chiller? Isn't it essentially the same thing? Instead of an outer hose you have a bucket of ice, but you still have the inside of the coil to clean. No?

__________________
chocotaco is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can't I cool wort by adding cold water? linusstick Extract Brewing 48 09-18-2012 06:59 PM
Why cool wort before adding to cold water?? rmcdermo General Techniques 6 03-18-2012 09:44 PM
running wort through immersion chiller cwilliamsccn Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 47 01-08-2012 01:24 AM
Is it OK to use cold bottled water to top off and cool my wort made from extract? Pixalated Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 28 05-27-2011 10:26 PM
Immersion Chillers - why does cold water feed the bottom of coil? Jknapp Equipment/Sanitation 20 02-17-2010 04:11 AM