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biggubba 09-25-2012 09:00 PM

recirculation issues........
 
I constructed a rims system very similar to the brew magic system. I purchased a nice false bottom and stand from norcal brewing solutions. I have a march 809 inline pump. All piping is either 1/2" id copper or 1/2 ss tubing. Problem is I am have major issues with recirculating the mash, seems there is not enough volume to supply pump. The system worked great when I tested it with water. Am I missing something? Any helpful info on re circulating mash will be appreciated..

Misplaced_Canuck 09-25-2012 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggubba (Post 4444004)
I constructed a rims system very similar to the brew magic system. I purchased a nice false bottom and stand from norcal brewing solutions. I have a march 809 inline pump. All piping is either 1/2" id copper or 1/2 ss tubing. Problem is I am have major issues with recirculating the mash, seems there is not enough volume to supply pump. The system worked great when I tested it with water. Am I missing something? Any helpful info on re circulating mash will be appreciated..

What's your process?

The way I do mine is to open the mash-tun valve gently and moderately, until the hose is filled liquid and no more liquid is coming out, at which point I open the valve fully on the mash-tun. I then CLOSE the valve fully on the return (output side) of the pump, and start the pump. Finally, I slowly open the output valve on the pump, until I have a moderate flow. I then pinch the input hoses to remove any air bubbles.

FYI, my pump is at a lower height than the mashtun's bottom.

MC

biggubba 09-26-2012 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misplaced_Canuck (Post 4444079)
What's your process?

The way I do mine is to open the mash-tun valve gently and moderately, until the hose is filled liquid and no more liquid is coming out, at which point I open the valve fully on the mash-tun. I then CLOSE the valve fully on the return (output side) of the pump, and start the pump. Finally, I slowly open the output valve on the pump, until I have a moderate flow. I then pinch the input hoses to remove any air bubbles.

FYI, my pump is at a lower height than the mashtun's bottom.

MC

I think I have may have found the problem. I was trying to run my pump full volume during recirc., i think i have to throttle down on the out put of pump. I was probably sucking all the grain into the false bottom creating a "stuck mash".The process i was trying was: 1) add grain to mashtun. 2) pump strike water to mash tun. 3) stir. 4) open valve from mt and close valve from hlt. 5) power up pump and rims hex. start recirc.

bob352 09-26-2012 03:03 AM

Yes, sounds like you stuck the mash.
+1 what Misplaced_Canuck said.
And don't stir when the mt valve is opened.

brewingmeister 09-26-2012 03:08 AM

Switch #1 & #2. Water first, then grain.

rekoob 09-26-2012 12:47 PM

I mash in water first then grain, stir it up good and start my pump with valve about half open and then adjust the flow rate from there. I found that if I run my pump to fast the same thing happens to me, the grain bed will settle to much and restrict flow. I slow the flow rate down and I don't have any issues, I even stir the mash without having the flow rate change.

Misplaced_Canuck 09-26-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggubba (Post 4444871)
I think I have may have found the problem. I was trying to run my pump full volume during recirc., i think i have to throttle down on the out put of pump. I was probably sucking all the grain into the false bottom creating a "stuck mash".

Yes, if at any given time, all valves are fully open (with either pump on OR OFF), you can get a stuck mash.

The idea is this: Keep it throttled back on ONE valve at all times. With pump off, throttle back the mashtun valve. With pump on, throttle the pump's output valve. [I think this covers it all, for my system at least.]

FYI, you don't want the input of the pump to be throttled back when the pump is on, but output is OK (outlet back pressure is OK).

MC

biggubba 09-27-2012 02:15 AM

Being the water and piping engineer that I am, "master plumber" I am always looking for maximum flow; with that being said I have put myself in this predicement, I am new to the recirc idea, but a happy medium is what I will have to strive for, trial and error and I will get it dialed in. Thinking of building a mash/sparge manifold to place on top of grain bed in mt which will restrict flow enough to prevent the "stuck mash". Thanks for the advice... Happy Brewing

Misplaced_Canuck 09-27-2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggubba (Post 4448078)
Being the water and piping engineer that I am, "master plumber" I am always looking for maximum flow; with that being said I have put myself in this predicement, I am new to the recirc idea, but a happy medium is what I will have to strive for, trial and error and I will get it dialed in. Thinking of building a mash/sparge manifold to place on top of grain bed in mt which will restrict flow enough to prevent the "stuck mash". Thanks for the advice... Happy Brewing

Well max flow won't work too well when the source of the liquid is NOT a liquid, but rather a pretty stiff mash from which you are trying to extract the liquid. :)

I normally flow at 13 gallons per hour (fly sparge) = 0.22 gpm. If I do a mash out, I get the initial liquid out faster, probably at 0.5-0.6 gpm (until the grain bed is nearly exposed), but not much faster that that.

MC

JRems 09-27-2012 04:11 PM

Also you might need to adjust your ratio, when recirculating I find it much easier with a thin mash. I mash at minimum with 1.5qts per pound. Recently have gone up to 1.7qts per pound and it has really helped with not only recirculation, but also efficiency has gone up. Also a pound of rice hulls donesnt hurt either, they are your friend.


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