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the75 12-01-2012 11:52 PM

Plumbers UNITE! Attention Gas Pros! Help!
 
I'm in the process of piecing together a Brutus 10 style automated system & would like some help in diagnosing my plan for any potential issues. I have NEVER worked with gas outside of replacing a valve for my NG dryer in my house, so please bear with me. Everything stated below is just from research that I did. Someone is building my stand with 1/2" black gas piping. He'll be using 3 - 32 tip jet burners. I will be automating the system using standard (high pressure?) BBQ propane. I will be attaching this adjustable regulator to the propane tank: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...d_i=B000VXEW4G
I will then use a manometer to adjust for a 11" water column. I will use a 3/8" gas connect to 1/2" NPT to connect the regulator to the 1/2" piping.
I will be using these Honeywell gas valves (conversion from NG to LPG): http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-V...FYl7QgodUEcAYw
allong with compatible thermocouplers & pilot lights. These will be in line to the MT & HLT burners to control them automatically depending on what my RTD probes are reading.
I will be using one transformer to power my gas valves: http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-A...0VA-11014000-p
I'll be using gas rated PTFE tape & checking for leaks with Dawn.

Anyone see anything that I should be concerned about? Go easy on me, plz.

bucfanmike 12-02-2012 11:52 AM

just for starters, Id go a different route on the regulator. As 11" wc is roughly .5 psi, trying to adjust that regulator is just not feasible. Start out with a good 2 stage regulator like a marshall 290. It will get you a true 11" wc and still be able to supply enough gas for like 200k btus. You mention high pressure propane, but cutting down to 11" wc and using the honeywells means you are running a low pressure system. Make sure the jet burners are compatible, you may want to look at banjo burners. They work great on low pressure with the proper orifice. Anyway a couple things to think about for starters.

the75 12-02-2012 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfanmike (Post 4641220)
just for starters, Id go a different route on the regulator. As 11" wc is roughly .5 psi, trying to adjust that regulator is just not feasible. Start out with a good 2 stage regulator like a marshall 290. It will get you a true 11" wc and still be able to supply enough gas for like 200k btus. You mention high pressure propane, but cutting down to 11" wc and using the honeywells means you are running a low pressure system. Make sure the jet burners are compatible, you may want to look at banjo burners. They work great on low pressure with the proper orifice. Anyway a couple things to think about for starters.

Great info! Thanks. I'll switch up to a different regulator. I had been told to get an adjustable regulator, to make things easier to control, but since that Marshall adjusts to 11" automatically, I think that will be easier. I thought the BBQ tank was a high pressure tank. I know I'll be cutting down the pressure for the system, so that may be what you mean. Anyways, I really appreciate the help with this & the recommendation on the regulator!

MaxOut 12-02-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the75

Great info! Thanks. I'll switch up to a different regulator. I had been told to get an adjustable regulator, to make things easier to control, but since that Marshall adjusts to 11" automatically, I think that will be easier. I thought the BBQ tank was a high pressure tank. I know I'll be cutting down the pressure for the system, so that may be what you mean. Anyways, I really appreciate the help with this & the recommendation on the regulator!

Tank/line pressure is reduced to various pressures for specific applications via a regulator. Most grills are low pressure 11"wc (.5 psi), anything above this is referred to as high pressure. When using low pressure you regulate the flame with a needle valve after the regulator by restricting flow not limiting pressure. When using high pressure you regulate the flame via an adjustable high pressure regulator commonly 10-30 PSI. Burners commonly used for home brewing like the Banjo burners will operate on low or high pressure, the only difference is the metering device called the orifice. Low pressure has a larger orifice than high pressure therefore can operate with similar BTU's as a high pressure system.

If you plan on automation using furnace valves you would need to run a low pressure system.

the75 12-02-2012 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxOut (Post 4641557)
Tank/line pressure is reduced to various pressures for specific applications via a regulator. Most grills are low pressure 11"wc (.5 psi), anything above this is referred to as high pressure. When using low pressure you regulate the flame with a needle valve after the regulator by restricting flow not limiting pressure. When using high pressure you regulate the flame via an adjustable high pressure regulator commonly 10-30 PSI. Burners commonly used for home brewing like the Banjo burners will operate on low or high pressure, the only difference is the metering device called the orifice. Low pressure has a larger orifice than high pressure therefore can operate with similar BTU's as a high pressure system.

If you plan on automation using furnace valves you would need to run a low pressure system.

Gotcha! So I am running a low pressure system! Makes perfect sense. I've noticed a lot of threads where guys running jet burners would experience issues with their flames. In each case, it appears that using an adjustable 0-30 psi regulator fixed the problem. The Marshall looks like it will supply me with the 11" water column I'm looking for, but if that amount of pressure isn't suitable for the jet burners, it doesn't appear as if it can be adjusted either way. I'd hate to "tinker" with gas pressure, but at least having the ability to do so seems better than not. Looks like I may have to just get it all together, set it for an 11" water column, give it a go & see what happens. This is where I wish I had more experience with these types of things. I've heard that too much pressure can cause my valves to fail.


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