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Old 06-13-2012, 12:55 AM   #1
Nightbrew
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Default Pilotless Ignition

Hey guys I am trying to research some options of pilotless ignition systems,so I thought I would start here. Right now I have honeywell valves running on low pressure lp. Are the electronic ignitors that come on when the honeywell is told to open? Just wanting to know what is out there. Thanks

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Old 06-13-2012, 01:16 AM   #2
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Hi

Two common answers:

One are the spark ignitors the other are the hot ignitors. Both check for a flame and shut down the valve if it's not present. Different folks like each one.

Spark ignitor fires off a spark to light a pilot. Pilot then lights the burner. Lots and lots of threads showing them in action. There are a set of them in the garage here.

Not as familiar with the hot element ignitors.

Bob

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Old 06-13-2012, 01:16 AM   #3
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There are 2 methods out there, spark ignition and hot surface, both will work direct ignition but variable fire levels on burners make that an iffy situation. The pilot with all of the baggage is the most reliable method because the pilot burns with constant fire level regardless what the main burner is doing.
You can get into the situation where the burner is turned low enough, or high enough that the ignition does not happen, then the ignition module locks out until power is shut off. With a pilot, it lights off each time and gives enough flame to reliably light the burner off at all reasonable firing levels.

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Old 06-13-2012, 01:22 AM   #4
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Excuse the thread-borrowing, but...kladue, can you recommend a specific model valve setup for high pressure propane?

Cheers!

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Old 06-13-2012, 01:29 AM   #5
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Hi

I'm running mine on high pressure propane with the "usual" Honeywell ignitors and eBay 24 VAC valves.

(No I'm not Kladue...)

Bob

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Old 06-13-2012, 02:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by day_trippr View Post
Excuse the thread-borrowing, but...kladue, can you recommend a specific model valve setup for high pressure propane?

Cheers!
These
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:56 AM   #7
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Onehoppyguy, I dont understand what those valves you linked to actually do. Can you explain the operation?

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Old 06-13-2012, 03:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbrew View Post
Onehoppyguy, I dont understand what those valves you linked to actually do. Can you explain the operation?
They are an industrial gas valve. They work like solenoid valves. Not trying to start an argument, but...
For home brewing applications low pressure propane is sufficient. I liken banjo burners running 30 psi to putting a supercharger on your engine. Cool, but hardly what's needed to get the job done.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:12 AM   #9
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A couple questions about need for high pressure, are you using BG-10's, if so you need high pressure, if BG-14's that is not the way to go. Most folks do not understand that more than 80K btu's under a 16" pot or keg is just not going to work, the multijet burners look impressive but have to be mounted 10-12" below the pot to get enough secondary air to burn right, and most of the heat just blows away. The BG-14 burners have proven to be the optimum size for HLT and BK applications, and with low pressure hit 80K at wide open.
To implement spark ignition with pilot you need 2 solenoids and 1 spark ignition module for each burner. The correct 1/4" solenoids rated for gas use are ASCO RED-HAT-8262H078, and run $75 each. The S8610 spark module runs around $88 each, for a total of $238 a burner. The Y8610U kits run around $210 and have a low pressure valve included, but you will need a Q345 pilot burner as they only have conversions for the Q314 pilot burners but no Q314 pilot burner. You do not need solenoid valves larger than 1/4" with high pressure, the gas density is such that they will flow more than the #65 drill size orifice can pass at the burner, larger is wasting your time and money.
For an example of this with diagrams, check the "Soos Creek Brewery thread http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/1-bbl-brewery-build-brutus-inspired-307647/ as there is an implementation of high pressure burner control for propane.
If you want the lowest cost and most popular setup, the Honeywell VR8200 low pressure standing pilot valve, Q314 pilot burner, and thermocouple will run about $80 per burner. Light pilot at start of brew session and away you go.

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Old 06-13-2012, 04:18 AM   #10
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I have to disagree with one item kladue... using natural gas and needle valves, jet burners respond very well in our tests.

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