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Old 07-02-2013, 02:29 AM   #21
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Just go ahead and run ya shine through it. When people start going blind move fast.
Only if you've stored it in your clay crocks and cut it with bleach!
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:33 PM   #22
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I'd love to see what your children look like after you try this!

In all seriousness, DO NOT put this in your wort! A serious medical complication is NOT worth saving $40.

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Old 07-02-2013, 06:35 PM   #23
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echo what was said by others. It'll make a great pre-chiller but might leach nastiness into your beer depending on the manufacturing process. If you are going to use it, consider testing the water as was suggested.

Cleaning... Aluminum forms a native oxide layer when exposed to air that is stable in the 4-9 pH range. so as long as you stay in that range you have a protective layer that will resist corrosion. Meaning, do not use acidic cleaning solutions (starsan) or you will strip off the native oxide and start eating away at the metal. My understanding is that the Aluminum oxide that forms is not has hard as the Chromium Oxide that forms on stainless. That and the fact that aluminum itself is much softer than stainless lead to increased chance of scratching and pitting which become sites for infection and increased corrosion. If the Al has been anodized then its oxide layer is thicker and more resistant to scratching. I've seen several places say not to use oxadation based cleaning solutions, but I can't find why. If the oxide is well formed then the surface is well resistant to further oxidation assuming pH ranges are kept within and no abrasives are used which would damage the layer.

Final concern would be galvanic corrosion. I'm not entirely sure on the average conductance of wort, but I would assume it is somewhat greater than water. Aluminum has a lower reduction potential than stainless and as such will ionize into solution over time corroding the core. This will happen faster anywhere the core touches your kettle (assuming the kettle is stainless, if it's also aluminum then you have no problem). Depending on how fast this happens you may result in some level of metallic off flavors in your beer. Aluminum is generally non-toxic so you don't have much to worry about there.

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Old 07-02-2013, 06:45 PM   #24
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U.S. made copper tubing. Would this use lead free solder?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12x12-Water-to-Air-Heat-Exchanger-For-Outdoor-Wood-Furnace-2-Season-Warranty-/230913601638?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c385 f066

I've also been looking at this, I think it might work in a bucket of ice water.
This would be very easy to clean.

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Old 07-02-2013, 08:48 PM   #25
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U.S. made copper tubing. Would this use lead free solder?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12x12-Water-to-Air-Heat-Exchanger-For-Outdoor-Wood-Furnace-2-Season-Warranty-/230913601638?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c385 f066

I've also been looking at this, I think it might work in a bucket of ice water.
This would be very easy to clean.
Top one is again not made with any standards that pertain to human consumption so it's hit or miss as far as what metals/chemicals may be present to leach out into beer... But as a pre-chiller in an ice bath it would work well due to high surface area.

As for the second one, that is just a simple tube in tube heat exchanger and wouldn't be likely to provide much heat transfer. It looks like it's designed to be used with a refrigerant undergoing a phase change which results in far better heat transfer than water to water.
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:07 PM   #26
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Blauhung, thanks for the detailed input. I was aware that AL build an oxide layer but not that the Starsan would take it off. Good to know.

My brew pot is also AL so that is a possitive. The water test is still probably the best idea to indicate one way or the other. I have contacted the manufacturer to see what solder or other chemicals might be used but no info. yet.

Still looking for reasonably priced water analysis. If the price is too high then I may as well just buy the FDA approved chiller.

When it comes to the leaching concerns and even the galvonic corrosion, among other factors, they are also time based. Household plumbing has lead solder and contact time is is measured in hours or even days. My test required less than 5 minutes so I would think that would have an impact. Only a water test will prove that out though.
It's just my cynicism but the FDA probably made some rat go swimming in [whatever] or exposed it to levels 1,000 times greater than what we would see and said, "look, the rat got sick. We must ban this from human use".

Obviously, for comercial use, the FDA must be followed. But for personal use, is it really a problem or just paranoya? If it is not paranoya, then it was just a bad idea. I would just like to know for sure cause this would be slick if it is ok.

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Old 07-03-2013, 05:54 PM   #27
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I don't want to sound to rude, but using non-fda approved items will give homebrewers a bad reputation.

This thread topic will give home brewers a bad reputation.

Sorry, but as home brewers, we do have to have to maintain a good rep and posting this idea (using car parts and exposing them to the wort) is not helping us.

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Old 07-03-2013, 06:59 PM   #28
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I don't want to sound to rude, but using non-fda approved items will give homebrewers a bad reputation.

This thread topic will give home brewers a bad reputation.

Sorry, but as home brewers, we do have to have to maintain a good rep and posting this idea (using car parts and exposing them to the wort) is not helping us.
I don't know that I'd go THAT far.

I certainly wouldn't put it in MY wort, and probably wouldn't drink it if i knew it was in beer i was served. However - it does provide a great heat exchange value and I bet at the right flow rate, you could get even Houston summertime tap water down in the sub 50*F range with that thing as a pre-chiller.

Now... i'm off to go make some bad choices that will sully the name of homebrewers everywhere!
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:17 PM   #29
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You gon' die.
I laughed my ass off at this!
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:08 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Crito View Post
I don't want to sound to rude, but using non-fda approved items will give homebrewers a bad reputation.

This thread topic will give home brewers a bad reputation.

Sorry, but as home brewers, we do have to have to maintain a good rep and posting this idea (using car parts and exposing them to the wort) is not helping us.

Probably 90% of the stuff we use isn't FDA/NSF approved.

Is any of the Blichmann stuff?

Chugger pumps, LG pumps, most(all?) march pumps, duda/shirron brazed plate heat e silicone tubing, copper & stainless immersion chillers, strainer bags, the Chinese ss & al pots are NOT FDA/NSF approved, but quite a few of use them everyday.

If something is manufactured of the proper materials and cleaned of machining residue, which nearly ALL products have on them, then the equipment is fine to use. If it was in service and can't be properly cleaned, then you are being risky if you don't know how to clean it or it can't be cleaned of residual chemicals.

People with no rational reasons creating hysteria over someone's equipment decisions are more likely to give us bad names.

Do you homework as some in here have and provide quality information and we'll all be better off as brewers.
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