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Patirck 02-23-2012 06:56 PM

Need help troubleshooting 2 problems with new Brewtus 10
 
I am trying to finish up my new brewing system and running into some last minute glitches (I hope its the last minute - I want to brew!).

I have a single tier with a BCS 460 controlling mlt and hlt burners. The burners are supplied by a standard propane tank. I got a new adjustable high pressure (0 - 40PSI) regulator to supply the three burners. I am using honeywell furnace valves with a standard needle valve between the ouput of the honeywell and the burner so I can manually adjust the flame. The HLT and MLT burner are the high pressure cast iron type bg10. The BK burner is a salvage from my old turkey fryer (BG12).

My two problems:

1. About three out of four times when I turn on the burner via the BCS, the honeywell valve does not turn on but makes a fairly loud buzzing sound. The other time it works fine. I have check the electrical connection as best I can with my el cheapo multi meter and it is getting power. I've tried recycling the power but it still seems to make the buzzing sound about twice as often as it just lights up.

2. I can't seem to get the right fuel air mixture for the burners. I get a tall sooty yellow flame with almost no blue in it. I have read the other threads about cleaning out the venturi and have done that. When I took it apart it was clean and put a pipe cleaner through both sides nothing stuck to it. I also blew it out with some canned air and took my shop vac to it. I acquired the two BG 10 burners with the stand and I'm not sure if they were used with natural gas or propane. Is there a difference? I get the same kind of flame with the BG 12 burner and I know that was used with propane. I've tried adjusting both the regulator setting and the needle valve. When I turn up the pressure from the regulator and have the needle valve wide open, the burner starts to make a hissing sound like it should and there is some blue flame but it also starts to spit flame out the side pipe where the gas connects to it.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I really want to brew this weekend. This project has taken me a lot longer than I anticipated and I'm almost out of beer!

JuanMoore 02-23-2012 08:55 PM

AFAIK most honeywell furnace valves are designed to be run exclusively on low pressure. If you're supplying them with 40psi, I'm surprised they're working for you at all. I got rid of my BG-10 type burners and went to banjo/hurricane type specifically so I could use that type of valve to automate my system. I'm not positive, but I think you either need to use a low pressure regulator and burners, or a different type of valve. Do you have the specific model number/s of the valves you're using?

Patirck 02-23-2012 11:27 PM

Honeywell VR8300A valves. I just started playing with the input pressure adjustment. This is the part with the spring that gets replaced so it can run on LP. Now it won't light at all. The pilot light operates and even though I've cranked down the pilot light adjustment as much as I can, the pilot still comes out much bigger and more forcefully than it should.

crazyirishman34 02-24-2012 12:50 AM

I am sure that Juan is correct. The honeywell valves are made to operate on 11" WC or less. In psi it is about a quarter of a pound of pressure. If you look at the original brutus build he is using a normal solenoid valve with a non-safety valve. That system works but I would not leave it unattended while you are brewing just in case the pilot goes out. Older style furnaces still use that type of set up but it is not as safe as the safety pilot systems. The reason that you are getting a yellow flame is that you are not getting enough oxygen to mix with the propane. This is because the honeywell valve also has a regulator that will drop the pressure to about 7" WC. So because the venturies on the high preasure burners are small the gas rushing past doesn't draw enough air into the mix and you get incomplete combustion. So either you need to get the low pressure burners or use a high pressure solenoid. If you get the low pressure burners you need to make sure you get the correct metered orifice for either natural gas or propane. Otherwise you are going to have mixture issues.

Patirck 02-24-2012 01:42 AM

Thanks for the response.

After unhooking the burners from the gas plumbing, I discovered that there was no propane orifice in the burner. There was a 1/8" male/male nipple. Just for kicks, I hooked up the 10 (0 - 10) psi regulator that I have for the turkey fryer and the burner worked fine - almost all blue flame. I think if I get the proper orifice, it will create the proper blue flame.

As for the pressure issue with the valves, is it possible to use a smaller regulator (like the 0 - 10 psi I already have) with these three burners? How does the multiple burner on at the same time affect the required regulator pressure? I'd like to use the stuff I already own instead of buying new. I certainly won't get rid of the Honeywell valves as I like the safety feature and I already have a lot invested in them.

crazyirishman34 02-24-2012 03:20 AM

The problem is that you are mixing incompatible parts. You can't use a high pressure burner with a low pressure valve. I would see if you could return the jet burners for low pressure banjo burners. Also the jet burner doesn't use an orifice. Just the low pressure burners use one. I know it sucks but you need to pick LP or HP.

petrostar 02-24-2012 05:13 AM

I just went through this. Listen to these other people. You're only supposed to supply those valves with 11-14" WC on the inlet of the gas valves, that's is .5 Psi. If you continue to run that high psi into the valves you're going to brake them. You also need low pressure orifices for your burners. I'm selling my bg12 burners and regulators on the classifieds here along with my 0-10 psi regulators because I don't think they'll put out enough btuhs at low pressure. I went with two 10 tip low pressure jet burners and they are insanely hot. I posted a video tonight to show it. They are supplied with approximately 12.3" wc low pressure propane. Their outlet pressure is about 5.5" wc. Bg12 burners running high pressure propane worked great btw. Sorry about my long rambling. Hope it helps.

Dupell13 02-24-2012 11:19 AM

Propane
 
I have a very similar setup. Using the proper size orifice will give you the proper air mixture. Search for low pressure propane to explain the difference in the pressures. Also you should be able to find the right orifice size. I bought mine from northern brewer. They have a combined valve and orifice for about 7$. I only use two burners at a time so you can step down your regulator to .5psi just look at the btu rating that the regulator can maintain. I hope this helps. Also the jet burners have orifices in each tip.

MaxOut 02-24-2012 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patirck (Post 3821418)
1. About three out of four times when I turn on the burner via the BCS, the Honeywell valve does not turn on but makes a fairly loud buzzing sound. The other time it works fine. I have checked the electrical connection as best I can with my el cheapo multi meter and it is getting power. I've tried recycling the power but it still seems to make the buzzing sound about twice as often as it just lights up.

2. I can't seem to get the right fuel air mixture for the burners. I get a tall sooty yellow flame with almost no blue in it. !

1- This is the sound of you destroying your valve. Not trying to sound like a jerk but that valve is designed to run at 11"WC =.5 PSI. If you continue to use a high pressure regulator you will certainly ruin your valves if you have not all ready.

2. You will never get the right mixture at the incorrect pressure.


Solution - You need the following

Low pressure propane orifice in your burners (contact manufacturer they have them)

Convert Honeywell valves to propane with the included cap and spring that comes with them per instructions. Tighten all the way in then back out 1 turn do not force it tight or you will damage it. The threads are plastic.

Verify your pilot burners are for low pressure propane and have the correct orifice installed.

Add the total BTU's of your three burners running on propane and acquire a low pressure propane regulator large enough to supply the BTU's you require.

**If you are not fully understanding the fundamentals of high verses low pressure I would seek professional assistance. Based on your post above I highly recommend it. Your local propane suppliers have qualified technicians that may be able to drill your existing orifices to the correct size and be able to supply you with the correct regulator.

Patirck 02-24-2012 02:54 PM

Thanks everyone for the response...

I do get it but I'm in denial! It sounds like I need to replace the following:

0 -40 PSI Pressure regulator with a low pressure regulator. Are these the kind available at home depot/lowes etc?

I need to replace the burners with low pressure burners. I already have one 32 jet burner (way overkill I know). Are there alternatives to the jet burners? Should I use the 32 jet burner for a 15 gallon pot or will I end up melting it?


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