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Old 02-16-2012, 08:43 PM   #331
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Default Need help with understanding the wiring diagram (Post #88

Hi all - I am building a classic Brutus 10 and using Josh's Auber PID approach. I do not yet have the Auber SL-2362 (but do have the instruction manual.) I am not a electrician but can figure some of this out. Having said that I have some basic questions:

1. How is the transformer wired? I have a 24v20a additive transformer and know I have to tie the 8 and 16v terminals together to get 24v and assume these are tied together to the 24v barrier strip but where is the neutral in the circuit? (Let me know if my assumptions are wrong.)

2. Speaking of the neutral, can I use the same Radio Shack barrier strip for the 110v and 24v neutral?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Bernie

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Old 02-17-2012, 02:21 AM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernieol View Post
Hi all - I am building a classic Brutus 10 and using Josh's Auber PID approach. I do not yet have the Auber SL-2362 (but do have the instruction manual.) I am not a electrician but can figure some of this out. Having said that I have some basic questions:

1. How is the transformer wired? I have a 24v20a additive transformer and know I have to tie the 8 and 16v terminals together to get 24v and assume these are tied together to the 24v barrier strip but where is the neutral in the circuit? (Let me know if my assumptions are wrong.)

2. Speaking of the neutral, can I use the same Radio Shack barrier strip for the 110v and 24v neutral?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Bernie
Ok, I'm not sure about your transformer wiring to get 24V but research it and you'll find out. Now you don't say, but I'll assume that the 24 volts you talk about is DC and NOT AC. If this is the case then there is no "neutral" in the 24Vdc circuit just a positive (+) and a negative (-). The AC circuit has a neutral (not always, but for simplicity your house does) and a HOT wire. You can NOT put the negative (or the positive) of the DC circuit to the neutral of the AC circuit. I'm not sure what the barrier strip you are talking about looks like but just make sure that the two terminals are not connected in any way. I would suggest talking to someone who knows electrical theory before going ahead as you will start to blow you equipment up!

If you post links to your items (or similar) I can help you out with the wiring.
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Old 02-17-2012, 03:48 AM   #333
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The transformer steps down 120Vac to 24Vac for the honeywell valves. Otherwise, I think it would be called a rectifier. You should be able to run the neutrals for your valves to the neutral barrier strip that your 120 is using. There shouldn't be any voltage on that strip anyway.

Edit: My transformer only has the wires on one side for the 120 hot, neutral and ground. The other side I had to attach wires to the post and combine them to make the 24 volts needed which I then ran to my designated 24v barrier strip. From the 24v strip I went to pin 13 on the PID and to the second center post on my DPDT switch. Out of pin 14 on the PID I went to the other center post on the switch. One connection from each side of the switch attaches to the honeywell via a DC connector. This switch configuration allows me to switch from auto to full on to the valves.

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Old 02-17-2012, 11:33 PM   #334
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For the Honeywell, does it matter whether you use the wiring terminals or the screws? It looks like Josh used the terminals but it seems like you could use either... Also, has is it correct that the hot from the Love/PID should go to the TR and the wire from the transformer should go to TH?

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Old 02-18-2012, 04:39 AM   #335
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I have a similar question and posted pics of my wiring in the thread in my signature. I'm getting .2Vac on the 24V side of my transformer according to my multi-meter. Also, I wired my 24V hot from the DC connector to the the TR on the valve. The TH on the valve I attached my red wire which is the ground/neutral. Is this right or should I have a lead from my Auber PID going to TR and the 24V off of the transformer going to TH? You'd basically be applying 24V to both terminals when the PID tells it to kick on which doesn't seem right to me.

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Old 02-19-2012, 02:28 AM   #336
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So, I had three bad transformers from two different places...how does this happen? Anyway, I finally have one that's registering at least 24V when I touch the multi-meter to 8V post and the 16V post together (I'm using a tri-volt door chime transformer like this). However, when I connect a wire to each post and join them together, the voltage drops to zero. Also, without the wires connected, the transformer has a nice hum. As soon as I join the wires onto my 24V terminal stirp, the hum goes almost completely away.

Here's another question: Transformer issues aside, I ran a hot 24V line to pin 13 on my Auber 2362 and then ran pin 14 to the auto side of my switch. I then ran a hot 24V line to the 'on' side of my 3-position switch to kick the burner on when I need to bypass the PID. Does this sound right?

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Old 02-26-2012, 04:46 AM   #337
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We are talking 24VAC, not DC on the Honeywells. Make sure you have the correct transformer
(this would work http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-Honeywell-Doorbell-Transformer-Pri-115-Sec-24-VAC-40-VA-AT140A1000-/380392505278?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589128 ffbe

the PID (Love, Auber, etc) sends the call for Heat to the TH (thermostat) terminal
the TR terminal is the 24VAC common and can come straight from the transformer.
Since Terminals 13/14 are normally open. (on the SYL2362) Those are the terminals that close on the call for heat. Current will flow.. So if you wire the Hot side of the transformer (Load or R) to pin 13 and wire pin 14 to the TH on the Valve, it will send Hot 24vac on the call for heat. The Common (often the "C" on the transformer) is wired direct to the TR on the valve. Run the Load side of the transformer to your 3 position switch center (often called an HOA, hand/off/auto) and then wire the switched terminal to the TH as well.. When you switch that on it bypasses the PID (like you said) and sends the hot to the TH and opens the Valve at your command.. hope that helps?
Section 10.3 on your instruction manual http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362%20instruction%201.6.pdf

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Old 02-26-2012, 03:44 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CollinsBrew
So, I had three bad transformers from two different places...how does this happen? Anyway, I finally have one that's registering at least 24V when I touch the multi-meter to 8V post and the 16V post together (I'm using a tri-volt door chime transformer like this). However, when I connect a wire to each post and join them together, the voltage drops to zero. Also, without the wires connected, the transformer has a nice hum. As soon as I join the wires onto my 24V terminal stirp, the hum goes almost completely away.

Here's another question: Transformer issues aside, I ran a hot 24V line to pin 13 on my Auber 2362 and then ran pin 14 to the auto side of my switch. I then ran a hot 24V line to the 'on' side of my 3-position switch to kick the burner on when I need to bypass the PID. Does this sound right?
Not sure what you mean by 'join them together' but if you are connecting the two wires from the output side of the transformer together, you're shorting it out and will not get any voltage. Whether you're doing this intentionally or not, it sounds like this is what is happening.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:06 AM   #339
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Default power issues

Greetings. I'm shamelessly copying this design because it's phenomenal. jlandin did an amazing job thinking this project through, posting his progress and leaving plenty of breadcrumbs for the rest of us to follow.

I want to do some different things with the control box. I have 2 pumps with plugs attached; and my plan is to build a second, smaller box on the frame with a couple plugs in it as well as the main power supply and the 24v transformer.

I'm going to use relays to switch full 110v to the pumps, but I still need to get at least 85v up to the PIDs.

I have a 15-pin DIN with 18 or 20-gauge wire coming off them I found as a scrap electronics store.

My plan is to carry the low voltage for both relays and the gas regulators, the PID temp sensors signals and the 85v to power the PIDs between the small box on the frame and the main control box with that single cable.

conventional wisdom suggests 85v is going to be a little much for that cable and connector, possibly even at a low amperage.

I'm hoping someone here a little better versed in electronics can provide a little more insight for me.

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Old 04-05-2012, 11:43 AM   #340
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When you say "at least 85 volts" I'm not sure what you mean. You're going to have 110v going though the cable back to the main panel. I'd recommend against running 110v and low voltage signal wires such as RTDs in the same cable. You risk noise issues.

One alternative would be to put a 24 or 12 vdc power supply in the smaller box. You can get 24 or 12 vdc powered PID controllers and supply these with dc power through your cable. You would then be running dc signals back down the cable to your relays to switch the 110v and 24vac Pump and valve power. You would just need to get relays with the appropriate dc voltage coil.

You might not have any problems running 110vac power and low voltage signals in the same cable but I wouldn't risk it.

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