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Old 07-12-2010, 03:57 PM   #1
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Default Motor wiring confusion

Well, my shiny three roller Monster Mill is here, the capacitor start motor I ordered on ebay showed up, and as soon as my sheaves get here from Drillspot, I plan on finally getting my motorized mill (heavily plaugerized from John Beere's outstanding build) together.

Over the weekend, I was killing time before the World Cup final (woohoo!) so checked out the motor wiring. I was expecting pretty basic stuff, I'd already pored through the other motorizing a mill threads, and based on the motor I tried earlier to use (old garage door opener) as well as the listing page for the motor I currently have, figured the wiring was universal (black, white, blue, red). I was going by the ubiquotous wiring diagram on the lamabrewery page, since I wanted the option to be able to reverse the mill easily, in case of a jam.

The manual says to refer to the motor casing for wiring instructions, which seem simple enough:



Most of the used motors I saw on ebay had wires already coming from the motor - luckily though, I got a brand new one, which did mean I had to wire the thing from scratch. Didn't concern me, at least until I pulled the wee access panel from the back, at which point confusion reigned supreme:



For a start, it SEEMS to me that a some of those terminals (1-5, L1 and L2) are actually the same. For example, 3 and 4 look to be actually the same terminal, just that one's a tab and the other is a screw post (but the tab is attached to the screw post?!?) Same for 1, 2, and L2 - 1 and L2 seem to be just tabs that are attached to the screw post marked 2! Which now confuses me as to where to bring power in - I would have ASSUMED that the black and white wires referred to hot and neutral, but since they seem to be attached to the same screw post, that's surely not the case?

If I don't overthink things (as I usually tend to do), I would say that live (black) from the outlet goes to L1 (where there's currently a purple wire?) and neutral (white) from the outlet would (should?) go to 1, where the white currently is attached. (Or should that be L2?) Adding a switch makes a little less sense to me, I would assume that since the motor specifies interchanging red and black (posts 2 and 4) that I could just string wires from there to a SPDT switch, which would be connected to live (black) from the outlet? But that makes no sense either, since it's specifying that power needs to be provided to L1?

HELP!!

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Old 07-12-2010, 04:46 PM   #2
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Looks to me like there should be another diagram on there.
It's kind of a mess and hard to follow. I tried to fine a manual for the Dayotn 6k490 online but it's a bit tough...

From what I can gather, 110AC will go on L1 and Neutral to L2. Terminals 4 and 2 are used to set the direction.
and it can be used one of two ways. Putting 110 on red and neutral on black will set the direction on way, 110 on black and neutral on red will set it the other way.

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Old 07-12-2010, 05:02 PM   #3
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Hmm.. I agree that Black to L1 and White to L2. I think you should physically swap 4 and 2 to get the CW rotation, leaving L1 and L2 alone. If you want to do it with a switch, you should bring those out and have a rotation direction switch on your cabinet. It would really help if we could get an internal wiring diagram.

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Old 07-12-2010, 05:05 PM   #4
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Ground (Green) goes under the green screw, Black - The hot lead of your 110V goes to L-1, White - The Neutral goes to L-2.

115VAC connection for Counter Clockwise Rotation...As Shown in the diagram, or swap Red and Black for clockwise rotation.

I guess the question is.....is this the way you intend to operate the motor? 110 1 phase, 230 1 phase, CCW or CW rotation?

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Old 07-12-2010, 05:16 PM   #5
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I think you need to include a start capacitor in there somewhere unless it's already attached and wired somehow. Can't tell from the pics provided, but it does say Capacitor Start Motor in the first pic, so I would assume you would need to use one.

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Old 07-12-2010, 05:25 PM   #6
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It has a start cap, it's under a protective cover attached to the housing you can't see it in the pics. New motors are pretty useless with out one.


L1 and L2 are the drive power, depending on how the start circuit (2 & 4) is polarized determines the direction.

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Old 07-12-2010, 05:45 PM   #7
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Catt, it's a capacitor start motor. This is the exact model: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/6K490?Pid=search

Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeRage View Post
Looks to me like there should be another diagram on there.
It's kind of a mess and hard to follow. I tried to fine a manual for the Dayotn 6k490 online but it's a bit tough...

From what I can gather, 110AC will go on L1 and Neutral to L2. Terminals 4 and 2 are used to set the direction.
and it can be used one of two ways. Putting 110 on red and neutral on black will set the direction on way, 110 on black and neutral on red will set it the other way.

Alas, the only paperwork which came with the motor was the "Motor installation and Maintenance Information". Now, I know that sounds really promising, but on reading through it, there's actually zero installation information. The usual safety stuff, like make sure it's securely fastened, sheaves should be correctly aligned, use the specified power source, etc. etc. When it comes to "connecting power to motor" all it says is "To connect motor for proper voltage and rotation, refer to the connection diagram on the nameplate or inside the terminal/conduit box."

So if L1 and L2 are the power coming in, and 2 & 4 determine rotation, would that indicate that one of the poles is inert, and only one of them (red?) is actually connected?

This is so arseways - everything else I've seen (including the motor I tried which didn't work) simply had connect neutral to neutral, and then applying power to either the red or the blue (usually on the capacitor) would turn the motor in the direction needed. Ugh...
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricand View Post
Hmm.. I agree that Black to L1 and White to L2. I think you should physically swap 4 and 2 to get the CW rotation, leaving L1 and L2 alone. If you want to do it with a switch, you should bring those out and have a rotation direction switch on your cabinet. It would really help if we could get an internal wiring diagram.
Being a dumbarse (as you know), this is where I'm getting confused. It seems that in order for rotation to be switched, red needs to go to 2, black needs to go to 4, and vice versa. So I'm assuming that I'd need to use a DPDT to pull this off? Or have one switch for black, and one for red (so both switches up = one direction, both down = another?)
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubermick View Post
Being a dumbarse (as you know), this is where I'm getting confused. It seems that in order for rotation to be switched, red needs to go to 2, black needs to go to 4, and vice versa. So I'm assuming that I'd need to use a DPDT to pull this off? Or have one switch for black, and one for red (so both switches up = one direction, both down = another?)
You only want one switch, you 'might' do damage by disconnecting one and not the other. A DPDT would work where the center posts are to the motor and the two sets of outside posts are crossed coming from the motor. Wish I had an ounce of graphics ability to give you a wiring diagram. Somebody out there can shoot it to you.
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricand View Post
You only want one switch, you 'might' do damage by disconnecting one and not the other. A DPDT would work where the center posts are to the motor and the two sets of outside posts are crossed coming from the motor. Wish I had an ounce of graphics ability to give you a wiring diagram. Somebody out there can shoot it to you.
You're not getting off that easily. You realize that you're going to be wiring this up for me, right?
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