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Old 03-18-2013, 07:30 PM   #91
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I went with the 1 HP sump pump (http://www.harborfreight.com/1-horse...oat-69301.html). It has 2640 GPH capacity, but only 20 FT Headlift (didn't realize the headlift was so low till I got home,) which I was surprised considering it's a full 1 HP. Works brilliantly for the Keg/Carboy washing, but on the test run for the bottle washer, I was getting a paltry 3-4" clearance.
I got the 3/5HP version of that pump, and had similar results. However, the pump the MelFet linked to is a 1/4 HP, and got me very similar results. I think MelFet is using copper with a much smaller ID. I found that crimping the ends to reduce the cross section was sufficient to get me a good 10" or so, plenty of force to ensure good even coverage of the bottles. Any easy (and cheap) fix.

I'll have to post a pic of my carboy washer without a carboy on it. It shoots water about 5 feet in the air with this same pump.

-micah
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:20 PM   #92
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Spent several more hours over the course of last week messing with my concept. Found that what worked as a dry fit, wasn't as good when I pulled it apart and started trying to glue it all together. Nothing was lining up anymore. It was just a disaster. I got half way through then decided I was going to test it before I went further. Capped the ends and hooked it to the pump. Still got terrible results. I think the Inside Diameter issue is one that just cannot be over come. Being that it's CPVC, I Couldn't just Crimp the ends.

Saturday I stopped by the store, and ended up copying the original design almost exactly. Surprise surprise, it works perfectly. I did make some errors in the construction (namely, putting the 1/4" pipe too far into the CPVC and restricting flow,) but even my shortest streams are going 7-8" vertically now. Cleaned 4 cases of bottles during the down moments while brewing yesterday. WOW! So much easier.

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Old 03-25-2013, 03:33 PM   #93
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Spent several more hours over the course of last week messing with my concept. Found that what worked as a dry fit, wasn't as good when I pulled it apart and started trying to glue it all together. Nothing was lining up anymore. It was just a disaster. I got half way through then decided I was going to test it before I went further. Capped the ends and hooked it to the pump. Still got terrible results. I think the Inside Diameter issue is one that just cannot be over come. Being that it's CPVC, I Couldn't just Crimp the ends.

Saturday I stopped by the store, and ended up copying the original design almost exactly. Surprise surprise, it works perfectly. I did make some errors in the construction (namely, putting the 1/4" pipe too far into the CPVC and restricting flow,) but even my shortest streams are going 7-8" vertically now. Cleaned 4 cases of bottles during the down moments while brewing yesterday. WOW! So much easier.
Glad to hear you got it working!

I really liked your original concept, so I hope you can get it to work at some point. If the problem is simply the diameter of the spouts (and that does seem to be a major factor for many people) you could always plug the ends with epoxy and then drill a new, smaller hole.

Like many here, I've got mine friction assembled. I even have a bottle of joint compound, but I just never bothered to use it. If there are leaks, they're small enough not to matter.

One of these days I'll get around to building a copper version. That will be far and away the most durable. With a bit of machining knowledge, I suspect one could sweat together a frame and then thread the spouts so they screw in. I'm hoping someone talented in this direction will start manufacturing and selling these things. Bad things seem to happen every time I take out my torch, so I take that as a sign from the universe that I shouldn't try to join metal with fire.



----------
In other news, I've made a keg/carboy washer from some leftover CPVC and a CIP ball from brewershardware. The thing could chip enamel. It's a much simpler project, but it uses the same pump and hookups so it's cheap&easy once you've got a bottle washer going. I'll post pics if I remember.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:09 PM   #94
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This pump was on HomeBrewFinds yesterday. Any chance it would work for this? It states a flow rating of 26 GPH @ 6' Lift, which is close to the one in the OP. The guy on HomeBrewFinds says it's not good for high temps, but the Amazon listing doesn't state operating temps anywhere that I can see.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...g=hombrefin-20

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Old 03-26-2013, 12:28 PM   #95
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This pump was on HomeBrewFinds yesterday. Any chance it would work for this? It states a flow rating of 26 GPH @ 6' Lift, which is close to the one in the OP. The guy on HomeBrewFinds says it's not good for high temps, but the Amazon listing doesn't state operating temps anywhere that I can see.
The pump I've used in the original build has 25' of lift. I strongly suspect that this one won't even come close to working, unfortunately.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:47 PM   #96
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Glad to hear you got it working!

I really liked your original concept, so I hope you can get it to work at some point. If the problem is simply the diameter of the spouts (and that does seem to be a major factor for many people) you could always plug the ends with epoxy and then drill a new, smaller hole.

Like many here, I've got mine friction assembled. I even have a bottle of joint compound, but I just never bothered to use it. If there are leaks, they're small enough not to matter.

One of these days I'll get around to building a copper version. That will be far and away the most durable. With a bit of machining knowledge, I suspect one could sweat together a frame and then thread the spouts so they screw in. I'm hoping someone talented in this direction will start manufacturing and selling these things. Bad things seem to happen every time I take out my torch, so I take that as a sign from the universe that I shouldn't try to join metal with fire.



----------
In other news, I've made a keg/carboy washer from some leftover CPVC and a CIP ball from brewershardware. The thing could chip enamel. It's a much simpler project, but it uses the same pump and hookups so it's cheap&easy once you've got a bottle washer going. I'll post pics if I remember.
Originally, I'd wanted to do an all copper version, I'm much better at cutting an sweating together Copper than CPVC. Seems counter intuitive, but true. It came down to cost in the end. When priced out, the frame and couplers were going to run in the $50-60 range. End the end, this is what I spent as I ended up buying the materials for this project twice, but I can't imagine there being enough of a demand for a product like this as it'd have to be $100 or more to be profittable. I may still go back and do a frame in copper at some point, just because I think it'd look really cool, and I could reuse the vertical 1/4" piping I already have.

When I returned to the hardware store for the second batch of materials, I also picked up some 1/2" PVC with a cap, and drilled holes in the top for a Keg/Carboy washer. It was another $5, put it together in a matter of minutes, and connected it to my existing setup for this. A buddy of mine also uses his pump to recirculate ice water through his wort chiller. He uses two gallons of tap water and adds 3 bags of ice as the water heats up, tosses in oxyclean afterwards to clean up, then does a load of laundry with that water afterwards. Seems like a much better use of water than hooking up a water hose and blowing it out into the yard, I just don't know if I want wort/hop residue in my laundry.
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:42 AM   #97
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I'm considering making one of these and I want to run a couple thoughts by others. I'd like the thing to work properly, given that this is very much an experimental subject.

It's my opinion we've established that, obvious in hindsight, restricting the flow on the 1/4" risers has a direct impact on the height and strength of the overall stream. (Thicker pipe, crimping the ends...) I'm thinking about using 1/4" end-caps with small holes drilled into them on each vertical riser. I found a post somewhere of someone who did this and said a single hole worked best. I'll probably start with very small holes (1/16") and work my way up so I can adjust the overall backpressure of the system, if needed. Has anyone tried this? Is my thinking flawed? Any reason to think I wouldn't get a decent water column, capable of providing a bottle drenching stream?

Also, I'm considering the system's input and overall manifold design. Is anyone else inclined to think that restricting the input to the system to 1/2" right away could negatively affect performance? Is going through the trouble to increase the pump's input into the system, given the pump's original output of 1-1/4", worth it? The manual for the pump states, "Whenever possible, use the same or larger size pipe than the pump discharge for optimum performance. Reducing the pipe size will not harm your pump; it will just reduce the output." Is there any reason to think going through this effort would provide better results?

I'm thinking about building mine to fit in a rubbermaid container, like micahshaw, so a hard piped output from the pump is feasible. 1" would be easiest to standardize on, I think. I'd tee the 1" connection from the pump, then fork that input into two 1/2" segments of the manifold via bushings. Since I'm making mine to clean 24 bottles, that helps me get symmetry and, I think, would allow the system to perform closer to it's maximum potential.

Thanks! I realize no one really has expertise in this subject, but if anyone has any input, it's much appreciated!

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Old 04-01-2013, 03:12 PM   #98
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I went even lazier. When my wife wanted a new dishwasher, I made sure it had a stainless steel tub with steam, high heat, and sanitize settings. As long as there is no gunk in the bottom, all the clean bottles I need.

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Old 04-01-2013, 03:20 PM   #99
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I'm considering making one of these and I want to run a couple thoughts by others. I'd like the thing to work properly, given that this is very much an experimental subject.
Great! Just promise to keep us appraised as you progress.

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It's my opinion we've established that, obvious in hindsight, restricting the flow on the 1/4" risers has a direct impact on the height and strength of the overall stream. (Thicker pipe, crimping the ends...) I'm thinking about using 1/4" end-caps with small holes drilled into them on each vertical riser. I found a post somewhere of someone who did this and said a single hole worked best. I'll probably start with very small holes (1/16") and work my way up so I can adjust the overall backpressure of the system, if needed. Has anyone tried this? Is my thinking flawed? Any reason to think I wouldn't get a decent water column, capable of providing a bottle drenching stream?
Riser diameter is very important, as we've been discovering. I don't see any reason why drilled caps wouldn't work, though to be honest it's more work than I'd probably be willing to do. I was surprised to learn how much variation there is in refrigerator coil, but pinching the ends seems like a cheap-n-easy solution. If you want to go with caps, though, I suspect it would work but I can't say for sure.

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Also, I'm considering the system's input and overall manifold design. Is anyone else inclined to think that restricting the input to the system to 1/2" right away could negatively affect performance? Is going through the trouble to increase the pump's input into the system, given the pump's original output of 1-1/4", worth it? The manual for the pump states, "Whenever possible, use the same or larger size pipe than the pump discharge for optimum performance. Reducing the pipe size will not harm your pump; it will just reduce the output." Is there any reason to think going through this effort would provide better results?

I'm thinking about building mine to fit in a rubbermaid container, like micahshaw, so a hard piped output from the pump is feasible. 1" would be easiest to standardize on, I think. I'd tee the 1" connection from the pump, then fork that input into two 1/2" segments of the manifold via bushings. Since I'm making mine to clean 24 bottles, that helps me get symmetry and, I think, would allow the system to perform closer to it's maximum potential.
I've been thinking about this a lot too. I think there's no question that the 1/2" piping is constricting flow significantly. A larger manifold of some sort would almost certainly increase overall throughput. I haven't gone that route because I didn't need to, but those who can

The reason I went with 1/2" was simply that it fit perfectly into the milk crate. As far as I'm concerned, that's my "discovery" here. The idea of pumping water into a bunch of bottles at the same time is not exactly innovation, but what I was thrilled to discover was just how easily cheap parts fit together. Five standard cpvc joints take up exactly the width of a standard milk crate, and the whole thing can be powered by an inexpensive pump. For those with more design and build flexibility, I have no doubt that there are better options, and I'm thrilled that people are using this as motivation to experiment.

That's why I really like your idea of using two different inputs to the manifold. It could work with virtually no change to the original design, and I suspect it would significantly increase flow (though hopefully the engineers will chime in to correct me if I'm wrong!). Simply having two inlets rather than one is smart.

If you go this route, let us know how it goes! If I get a chance to swing by the hardware store this week, I'll pick up some extra plumbing to see if I can increase my power this way.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:15 PM   #100
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subscribed nice build

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