jcav

Recipes 

I posted the below questions in the brewing & equipment section, but no one chimed in. I know a lot of you guys are incredably knowledgeable and have experience using this same type of system. Can someone out there reply?..... (I did shower this morning, so I don't smell or anything). You don't have to answer every single question I asked, but I really would like to know what's up with some of these unknowns ............

John


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Hello eveyone, I really need sound advice for purchasing the correct Auber Pid temp controller for use with my system. I am in the middle of my build and I am making a single tier Brutus type direct fired gas system. I am using Lp gas from a 20 lb tank through the back gas beam of the stand. I have Honeywell VR8200 standing pilot valves with thermocouples and pilot lights to control the gas flow on the HLT and MLT's 10 inch Banjo burners. I am also using needle valves to control the flame size to each burner.

My first question: There are two Auber Pid/Temp controllers that are similar and I want to know which one is better. The first one is model SYL2362 and the other is the SYL2342.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_ id=106

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_ id=1

I want to use RTD probes attached to tees coming out of the HLT and MLT vessel's liquid lines, to monitor the temperature, and have the correct Auber controller turn the Honeywell valves on and off. Both of these models seem like they would work fine, but is one better than the other for how I am going to use them with gas and not electricity?

Question 2: Can any one comment on the performance of their Auber controller and if they are satisfied with how its working controlling the Honeywell valves? Are you using On/Off mode or PID mode?

For instance I think On/Off mode is probably the way I will end up wiring the Auber controller, but is anyone actually using the pid modes for their gas system and solenoid valves? If so does the PID mode work better than ON/Off mode? The SYL2342 has fuzzy logic and the SYL2362 does not.

I would like to know for a five or ten gallon batch and lets say a desired mash temp of 152 degrees, what is the average amount of times the Honeywell valves turn on and off to keep the desired temp range close to 152 degrees in an hour? Does the valve turn on and off twice in 3 minutes, once every 5 minutes, or whatever, in On/Off mode. What is the average in PID mode (if any one has used this mode)? Also how is it working and what is the average times for a set temp on the HLT?

I realize there is a hysterisis band and a range of temps you can set, (two degrees, three degrees, one degree, etc) to activate and trigger the valves, and the SYL2342 has a tighter temp range that it can keep the temp at, but I just want someone to advise about how it is working for them in real life.

I was told (don't know if it is factual) that the Honeywell valves have a life of about 100,000 times of opening and closing before they start to have problems and need to be replaced. Can these valves handle opening and closing repeatedly in PID mode, or is it better to use the On/Off mode?

So there it is....Sorry so long winded but I would really like to learn some answers to the above questions, so I can make the right purchase and use the technology to the fullest extent of how it was designed. I want to have a solid working system with the best performance for the equipment I am using, and have a SMOOTH brew day!

Thanks for your time,

John

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"Talent is hitting a target no one else can hit. Genius is hitting a target no one else can see."

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kladue

Recipes 

To the first question, both controllers can be setup to run in the on/off relay mode which would be the way you would run them. Using PID control for a mash tun with a large thermal mass that changes temp slowly would be difficult to tune as the time that temperature changes take would have the controller integral value maxed out waiting for setpoint to be reached. If you insulated the mash tun and were just doing single step mashing then you would not cycle the burner during the mash rest time.

To the second question, if doing step mashing then recirculating the wort in uninsulated plumbing will mean that you would expect a couple short burner cycles in the 60 minute mashing cycle after reaching step temperature.

Most of the mash conversion enzyme magic happens in the first 15 minutes of the temperature rest so dropping temps after that do not change the wort enzyme activity much. Stepping from the 145- 154 degree range for fermentablility to the 154 - 160 degree range for body increasing dextrines would probably be the most typical scenario I would expect to see used. If you get into high percentage wheat or rye malt beers then a three step mash schedule will work wonders for preventing stuck mashes with the sticky proteins liberated by the malts. A start at 125 for 10 minutes then a step to 150 for 40 minutes followed with a 10 minute step to 158 would yield an easy to drain wheat/rye beer with tremendous head retention.

jcav

Recipes 

Thanks Kladue, It's funny you mentioned rye beers because I really enjoy them and I haven't brewed one yet. I will use the controller in on/off mode then. A few short burner cycles in a 60 minute mash is perfectly fine for the Honeywell valves.

Thanks again for your help!

John

__________________
"Talent is hitting a target no one else can hit. Genius is hitting a target no one else can see."

"Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they really aren't after you!"