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Old 03-08-2013, 02:14 PM   #21
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^^^^^^^^^^
One of the MOST AWESOME post's I've seen in a LONG time... No name-calling, but presented the facts from several sources... Good job man!

On a side note: I just fixed the humidifier in my boy's room with JB Weld. My wife was concerned about the chemicals leeching into the water in the reservoir. Boy was she surprised when I assured her that JB Weld was indeed a food-safe product.

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Old 03-08-2013, 02:19 PM   #22
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^^^^^^^^^^
One of the MOST AWESOME post's I've seen in a LONG time... No name-calling, but presented the facts from several sources... Good job man!
Can I get a post like? Haha thanks. Ya, I'm not into all that flame war shiz. Just all about setting records straight and helping out the other homebrewers out there who might not have as much chemical knowledge as myself. I'm actually glad Alien posted that because that gave me the impetus to put together that lengthy post in response.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:29 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by fc36 View Post
JB Weld is food safe.
Thank you for providing some justification to your initial statement, which was provided without any justification or qualification. My response was in kind. It happens that I am an epidemiologist who works in the pharmacological sector. So I have a little knowledge of what it takes to get marketing approval for a substance.

The data are very interesting and many people will agree with your judgment call. But the fact remains that there are epoxy resins approved by the FDA as food grade and JB Weld is not one of them. Do you know for sure that JB Weld passes the toxicological requirements of FDA specifications CFR 175.105 and CFR 175.300?

I'm not saying that's the only relevant criterion for home brewers. What you mean by "food safe" may be something different. But if you are talking about "food safe" epoxy to me, that's what I understand it to mean.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:47 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by alien View Post
Thank you for providing some justification to your initial statement, which was provided without any justification or qualification. My response was in kind.

The data are very interesting and many people will agree with your judgment call. But the fact remains that there are FDA approved epoxy resins and JB Weld is not one of them.
I agree, there are FDA approved (read: "Food Safe" label) resins out there, but they don't always have the general availability, bond strength, temperature range, pressure range and versatility that JB Weld and other "over-the-counter" resins have. FDA approval also costs money and JB Weld was originally intended for a different market. My challenge to you, Alien, is to find a readily available (i.e. at Menards, True Value, Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace, etc...) food grade epoxy resin that is reasonably similar in function and cost to JB Weld and then present your findings to us here on this HBT thread. That would help a ton of homebrewers and I would bow to you sir.

Maybe if all of us homebrewers out there unite and sign a petition for the makers of JB Weld to seek FDA approval they just might open the check book and get after it. Who wants to champion that cause?

EDIT: To clarify, in this application I feel it is fine, but I'd be a little more hesitant to use it on a pinhole repair of my MT, HLT, or BK. The conditions of contact with high temp, low pH wort for an extended period of time probably don't make it easy on the weld. In those cases, if you absolutely must use an epoxy resin, either you should find one that is FDA approved or be as careful as possible with correct 1:1 mixing ratios with something like JB Weld and then after allowing it to cure for 24-48 hours, hit the weld with a test boil of plain water to drive off any residual contaminants and "cure" the surface. Alien, you clearly are informed as well and I agree, I should have clarified my first post.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:53 PM   #25
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This is more fun than the brass fittings/lead threads.
Thank you gents
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:02 PM   #26
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Let's shake hands at this point because I think we are on the same page really. JB weld used appropriately is probably safe enough, and the stuff in your post was quite persuasive.

Unfortunately food grade epoxies cost about 20x what JB Weld does. Jumping through that hoop is expensive and products that make the grade can charge consumers appropriately.

FWIW I would be totally happy drinking your beer. I think many materials can be adapted with reasonable safety even if they were not designed for that purpose. My mashtun has silicone sealant in that was not specifically approved by the FDA, but I found out enough about what goes in it to be happy that it was safe enough for me. IMO the potable water criterion is generally a sensible one, although beer is also acidic and alcoholic, so a little extra caution is justified as you say.

In truth, I haven't really looked very closely into what goes into epoxy resins, but the fact that they are 2-part compounds makes me slightly nervous because in the wrong proportions you could get unmixed resin or hardener exposed to the beer. On the whole I'd rather avoid it, but I am sure that miniscule areas of properly mixed, dried epoxy are not going to cause a lot of health problems any time soon. So, I guess I wouldn't use it to patch a hole in a kettle (which is what JB weld is really for) but I wouldn't have a problem with, say, using an epoxy thread sealant which was listed as OK for potable water but not certified as food grade. I know some people prefer JB weld to silicone for that purpose because it doesn't go mouldy. It's a judgment call and I could go either way, but what ever I chose I would want to be well informed, so thank you for helping me with that.

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Old 03-08-2013, 03:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Let's shake hands at this point because I think we are on the same page really. JB weld used appropriately is probably safe enough, and the stuff in your post was quite persuasive.
Done and done. Alien --> <-- fc36

Edit: Btw, I like your blog. I'm just getting into RasPi, Arduino and microcontrollers. I may need to pick your brain in the future.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:31 PM   #28
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so back on point, I was thinking the same thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaksnbeer View Post
Often wondered if a float fit around the tube out reading distance. Use them to read how much we have inside of 55 gallon drums at work. Brighter minds please chime in.
Why not use a float like you'd have in a gas tank? Could work, no? I know it probably isn't super fancy and able to be hooked up to a network controller. But if your goal is to be able to know how much beer you have in your keg, this would do it. Then again, after kegging for many years, you just know how much you have in there..
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:20 PM   #29
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I'm in the process of trying to determine the amount of beer left in my keg as well. I purchased a turbine flow sensor (see link) and connected it to my control system. I'm currently running trials with water and I'm very impressed with the accuracy so far. I talked to tech support before purchasing the sensor with concerns about beer flowing through it and would it affect the accuracy, he said it won't have any affect. I'll let you know in a few days. For the water trials I filled 10 12 oz water bottles and they all were filled perfectly. I then decided to fill a 1 gallon container and weigh it with a digital scale which came out to 8.3279. That's really close. Of course I'm anal about details due to my job (building control systems). The sensor was $105.00 which was a little pricey but the accuracy is worth it.

http://www.gemssensors.com/Products/...es-Flow-Sensor

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