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Old 05-09-2010, 12:03 AM   #1
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Default GreenMonti's Keg Tool

GreenMonti has shown a terrific tool that makes a very nice looking bevel for keggle fittings. I was lucky enough to find a fellow member that was also interested in this tool. And he was able to source the special brass that was needed, and then build the tool for me. Very Cool. Both of you.

So I did a little work the other day. After these guys did all the hard work. This is what I was able to do,

















Turned out pretty damn nice. Then I F'd it up welding. Was either too hot or not enough gas flow. I need to work on that. Next one will be better.

Only two things other than my welding job. I drilled a 7/8" hole, that made a very tight fit. Very hard pull, I stretched the all thread and will need to replace it. I have found and ordered a piece of 5/16" Grade 5 all thread. I need to figure a way to determine how far to pull and when to stop.

All in all a nice first try.

Thanks Guys.

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Old 05-09-2010, 01:16 AM   #2
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I like it big time!! That looks pretty sweet. Nice job you two.

With mine, I have that back receiver and I pull until it just about touches the side wall. That leaves me with just about 3/16" sticking out on the inside. Then I finish it off with a rubber mallet. I like them flush to the inside, but you can place them wherever you please. A couple of taps in whatever direction it needs to be square to the vessel and weld it up.

As you mentioned the fit is nice and tight. Pretty sweet, yes. I use my 3/8" impact gun to run the nut down to save on the labor. Wear your hearing protection if you go this route. Keegles and regular stock pots sing out something fierce.

Would you mind posting the weld job? I would be happy to look at it if you would like me too. If not no biggie.

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Old 05-09-2010, 01:28 AM   #3
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I would be happy to post the next one. I could see I was getting in trouble, and rather than stop I kept going. And of course made things even worse. Ended up pretty ugly. Well maybe not that bad. But I want to do another try. Then I would very much appreciate your critique. It's hard to learn without advice.

I'll do another test soon and post pics.

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Old 05-09-2010, 01:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRock View Post
I would be happy to post the next one. I could see I was getting in trouble, and rather than stop I kept going. And of course made things even worse. Ended up pretty ugly. Well maybe not that bad. But I want to do another try. Then I would very much appreciate your critique. It's hard to learn without advice.

I'll do another test soon and post pics.
Sounds good. Are you adding wire or doing a fusion weld?
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:03 AM   #5
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I started doing a fusion. Was having trouble getting a puddle started and cranked up the amps a bit. Tried again and messed around then grabbed a stick of rod. Eventually got everything too hot. I should have just backed off when I started having trouble, but I knew it was only a test and I pushed it.


One question I have. Whenever I weld Stainless it appears that I'm getting the weld area too hot. You can kind of see, in the second picture. Around the test welds is a ring of darker color. Is that too much heat going into the metal? I see from your post a nice close line around the weld. And yours was a nice blue line not a nasty looking black one. Or is that because I did not back gas on these test welds?

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Old 05-09-2010, 12:17 PM   #6
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While I am not even remotely close to the artisan quality of welds that GreenMonti does, this seems like too much heat. I have found that welding the SS takes very little heat there.

Looking at the two welds on your top, it is my guess that there is too much heat. I've found a nice sharp point is essential on my POS tig.

It depends on how much "black" there is. It is either overheating, or sugaring.
Look at figure 7/8.

http://millerwelds.com/resources/art...guide-graphic/

GreenMonti, can you provide some novice weldors with some sample TIG setups for keg welding? I use 3/32 2% Thorium (sometimes 1/16), about 35-45a, 17ch of argon. I just got a keg yesterday, so maybe today I can do some tests too.

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Old 05-09-2010, 12:23 PM   #7
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Good information on that page Larry.

Thanks, I'll give it a good read.

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Old 05-09-2010, 02:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRock View Post
I started doing a fusion. Was having trouble getting a puddle started and cranked up the amps a bit. Tried again and messed around then grabbed a stick of rod. Eventually got everything too hot. I should have just backed off when I started having trouble, but I knew it was only a test and I pushed it.


One question I have. Whenever I weld Stainless it appears that I'm getting the weld area too hot. You can kind of see, in the second picture. Around the test welds is a ring of darker color. Is that too much heat going into the metal? I see from your post a nice close line around the weld. And yours was a nice blue line not a nasty looking black one. Or is that because I did not back gas on these test welds?
They might be a little hot. They are through I know that. Without a purge on the back side, the crap on the back will mix with the front side. That might be part of it. But I am thinking gas coverage on the weld side.
How wide are those welds in the pics?
What kind of torch setup do you have? Are you running standard parts, or are you using a gas lens?

Edit; Just guessing, I would say those welds are about an 1/8" wide?

Edit-edit; Why did you weld the fitting with the factory casting down? I assume it was done due to the OD being different and it wouldn't work the other way. That too will play a roll in the weld. How did you clean it? It looks buffed off in some way. Did you wipe the pieces down with acetone before pulling it through to be welded?
What type of gas are you running?
Was there any type of breeze blowing in your shop?
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Old 05-09-2010, 02:57 PM   #9
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Good questions.

I had turned that coupler down earlier and it was lying there so I used it. I just inserted it that way because the turned end was slightly smaller an I
figured it would push a bit easier that way. I did use my wire wheel on a pedestal grinder to clean the surface. Of course that is a no no because it is used for everything from rust to plastic.

No acetone in shop. I used spray lube to help the fitting slide and afterward used Ether (Starting Fluid) to clean the area of oil and debris. Drying with towel and shop air compressor.

Breeze in shop possible. I live on top of a windy bluff in Iowa. If the wind ain't blowin look out. Although my TIG is pretty deep in my shop, so that should be of minimal concern. My TIG tourch is a Weldcraft air cooled with a fairly small nozzle. I can take a picture of it . I actually wonder if a different nozzle will help.

Part of my TIG trouble is my machine (along with my lack of experience) I have an old Miller Econo Twin with High Freq that I got after my father died. I think it's from the 70's heavy as all get out. But lacks a pedal for power control. And only a knob for gas control. So I don't have all the control that a newer TIG has. Basically mine is on or off.

But I figure in it's day it was probably a good machine. Somebody was able to get good welds out of it, so I will keep learning. Hard to replace at this point with the minimal amount of TIG welding I do.

I started at 55 amps, on the high side. Maybe should have set at 55 amp on low side? I figure 55 is 55 on either side of the switch.

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Old 05-09-2010, 05:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRock View Post
Good questions.

I had turned that coupler down earlier and it was lying there so I used it. I just inserted it that way because the turned end was slightly smaller an I
figured it would push a bit easier that way. I did use my wire wheel on a pedestal grinder to clean the surface. Of course that is a no no because it is used for everything from rust to plastic.

No acetone in shop. I used spray lube to help the fitting slide and afterward used Ether (Starting Fluid) to clean the area of oil and debris. Drying with towel and shop air compressor.

Breeze in shop possible. I live on top of a windy bluff in Iowa. If the wind ain't blowin look out. Although my TIG is pretty deep in my shop, so that should be of minimal concern. My TIG tourch is a Weldcraft air cooled with a fairly small nozzle. I can take a picture of it . I actually wonder if a different nozzle will help.

Part of my TIG trouble is my machine (along with my lack of experience) I have an old Miller Econo Twin with High Freq that I got after my father died. I think it's from the 70's heavy as all get out. But lacks a pedal for power control. And only a knob for gas control. So I don't have all the control that a newer TIG has. Basically mine is on or off.

But I figure in it's day it was probably a good machine. Somebody was able to get good welds out of it, so I will keep learning. Hard to replace at this point with the minimal amount of TIG welding I do.

I started at 55 amps, on the high side. Maybe should have set at 55 amp on low side? I figure 55 is 55 on either side of the switch.
So to me it sounds like your running standard 2 series torch parts. No gas lens. What size cup do you have? You want the biggest you have. Also, how far out is the tungsten from the edge of the cup? What size tungsten are you using? What size filler rod are you using?

A pic of your torch would be nice and I would like to see a pic of the machine if you would? I like old stuff. I have an old Dial Arc made by miller. The white faced machine. My serial number says it was built in 78. The only doo dad on it is high freq. Even though it has gas solenoids I am not using it. I am running an air cooled CK torch with the gas control on the side. I am using the big gas lens and a number 12 cup. My lens is about 1" diameter. Gas coverage IMO is everything. I run my welder on the low setting which tops out at 55 Amps. I am pretty sure I am just about floored when I weld. Maybe half pedal ish.I don't really pay to much attention to the amps any more. Just watch and adjust accordingly.

You should see about a different pre-weld cleaning method.

That Ampco material is self lubricating. No need for any lube, I never use any. I clean up the coupling before I pull it. I like to get rid of the rough surface on the outside. I try and get rid of any embedded nastiness from the whole process. Silica will do a number on a weld. I don't have a metal lathe. So I turn my parts on my wood lathe with a nipple in the jaws and use my flapper wheel to polish it.

One last thought on the back purge. If your welding on the coupling that is placed in the pull out. I have welded several without any back purge. The localized heat and the way the material is there shouldn't be any sugaring on the back side. Even in the dimple. Cause all your doing is getting the edge of the keg to melt into the puddle. Of course you still do the damage of sensitizing the material from it not being protected. I guess what I am saying is, the lack of purge on the coupling was not the cause of a bad weld.
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