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Old 07-23-2010, 08:13 PM   #11
soldstatic
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Originally Posted by motobrewer View Post
you need a bunch of welding certifications to be able to weld a steam boiler.
i'm not going to certify my boiler, and i'm not going to sell it. Besides, My dad is a PE and has been welding for years. I'm not concerned about needing certificates to build my system.

Please people, I obviously am aware of the dangers involved and understand the risk in undertaking this method. That's the whole point of this post. How do I safely pull liquid water from a boiler?

Thanks for your concern, now help me solve the problem!


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Old 07-23-2010, 08:27 PM   #12
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Dip tube coming from the bottom of the boiler with a 10# check valve at the end?



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Old 07-23-2010, 08:32 PM   #13
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Hm interesting. I'm not sure even 50 ft would cool it below 100C without some kind of cooling. But if that was how I was doing it I could use something akin to a counterflow chiller. Hopefully somehow mix the water coming out at both ends to make 170F. That would probably be a lot better than misting a coil and wasting the heat. Might have to have 3 sources of water to 'mix'. Superheated (cooled to below boiling point), heated (used to do the cooling), and cool (source). That said without a lot of 'cooling' water moving fairly quickly, I don't know if it would be able to absorb enough. But if was done slowly enough on the high pressure side, I might be able to maintain the pressure fairly well since the volume released would be very small.
You'd be surprised how much expansion helps you.

The latent heat of vaporization of water is orders of magnitude higher than the heat capacity of water. When you open that valve, the water will flash to steam, but when it does this, it will pull a LOT of energy, cooling the vapor, possibly enough to get it back into a liquid phase.

Ugh...now I have to figure it out for you, cuz I'm curious...I'll be back.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:43 PM   #14
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I've got two degrees in engineering, and work in the power industry. I used to design control systems, including valves and distributed control networks, etc etc for power plants.
Then I think you should know better. Operating a home-built steam pressure vessel may well be illegal. I have no doubt you have the capability to build and operate a steam boiler. I do have serious doubts about whether you should actually do so. Your insurance company would probably frown on the idea too.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:59 PM   #15
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What's with all this negativity....people have built many steam infusion rigs on this forum before. FlyGuy made one with a pressure cooker. Yuri_Rage has made a couple....I don't see the big deal.

Also, I can't figure out the damn math, and all my books are at work. I say try it, see if expansion alone, (plus the copper bleeding heat), gets you below boiling...

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Old 07-23-2010, 09:04 PM   #16
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Hey Op, while looking around for other examples of steam systems, I found that Yuri has a new toy:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/yuri-goes-big-steam-new-boiler-point-use-water-heater-125953/

I didn't read all through the thread, but his idea for "point of use" makes more sense than yours, I think....I'd go with that!

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Old 07-23-2010, 09:06 PM   #17
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Try PMing Yuri_Rage, he uses a converted keg as a boiler to generate steam which he direct injects into recirculating mash and sparge water. I think he did exactly what you're trying to figure out, though he just uses the steam.

Yuri's Setup

That's an option for you...just run steam into your running water to heat it to whatever temp you need at the output.

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Old 07-23-2010, 09:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by shortyjacobs View Post
Hey Op, while looking around for other examples of steam systems, I found that Yuri has a new toy:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/yuri-goes-big-steam-new-boiler-point-use-water-heater-125953/

I didn't read all through the thread, but his idea for "point of use" makes more sense than yours, I think....I'd go with that!
Wow brilliant. I didn't think it could be that simple, but that makes too much sense. I've got too much engineering blood in me. My gut reaction was to make it way more complicated than it needed to be. Only thing I'll do differently will be to attach an on off valve in addition to the flow regulating valve in line for the 'point of use' piece, and then add a line dedicated to steam that will go to the manifold in the bottom of the MLT / kettle.

Brilliant.
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by orangehero View Post
Try PMing Yuri_Rage, he uses a converted keg as a boiler to generate steam which he direct injects into recirculating mash and sparge water. I think he did exactly what you're trying to figure out, though he just uses the steam.

Yuri's Setup

That's an option for you...just run steam into your running water to heat it to whatever temp you need at the output.
I've been reading up on Yuri's steam systems, and taken a large amount of inspiration from them indeed. I don't know how that post escaped me, but i never saw that thread until you two pointed it out! Thanks so much!!
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:29 PM   #20
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I believe Kladue does inline steam injection also. He uses an instant steam boiler, though...more efficient if you can figure out how to do it. His system is extremely sophisticated, check it out for ideas.

Kladue's system

None of them use steam to boil the wort, and I think this also is due to inefficiency. Personally I prefer electric heating...cheaper, cleaner, and more efficient; just make sure you use ultra low density elements for the kettle.



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