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Old 09-07-2012, 10:50 AM   #3021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IFMracin
Since this seems to be the place to post, here's my build.

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Looks nice! Very clean build. Now to make great beer.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:39 AM   #3022
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Originally Posted by buzzman003

Ordered mine 2 days ago from the same seller. Should be here soon.
I'm wishing I hadn't bought mine from China. It's been a couple weeks now and I'm getting impatient. Next time I will just pay the few dollars extra.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:43 AM   #3023
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I ordered mine it took almost a month another
Friend ordered from the same guys lives 20 mins from me he got his in 4 days. Only positive I that is I've used mine, he's too busy to wire it up...

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Old 09-07-2012, 04:51 PM   #3024
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I think the GFCI discussion got muddled by the use of "cannot/will" where "shouldn't/can" would have been more appropriate, as was clarified later. Even my original 'could' would have read better as a 'may'.

That being said, using 2 GFCIs in series can cause issues, even when wired properly (for series). This can happen even when both GFCIs function properly when wired separately/in parallel. Several scenarios can cause this:

One GFCI has a current leakage lower than its trip threshold (or before its trip circuitry), and is wired downstream of a GFCI that has a trip threshold lower than the leakage (or the sum of leakages, if the upstream GFCI also has some 'post trip circuitry' leakage).
Any combination of the above resulting in a 'post trip circuitry' current leakage that exceeds the trip threshold of the upstream GFCI.
I have personally encountered this. I figured out which GFCI was problematic, and tossed it, even though it worked on its own. No sense in keeping something like that around. There could have been all kinds of reasons there was current leakage, none of them good.

These same issues can also be caused by faulty wiring external to the GFCI device as well, and this is a much more common cause.

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Unless your breaker includes GFCI, which is common (code?) these days, you had something wired incorrectly. If you have GFCI breakers, then there could have been an issue plugging a standalone GFCI breaker into an outlet controlled by the GFCI breaker.
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Originally Posted by Jim1234 View Post
You cannot have two GFCIs on the same circuit, they will trip eachother.... (Just like you saw)
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That doesn't make sense to me. Could you provide an explanation or justification for your statement?
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Originally Posted by JuanMoore View Post
This is not entirely true. It's redundant, and many electricians and inspectors advise against it, but if wired correctly they will not trip each other.
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And I was told that if you have two gfcis on one circuit (gfci breaker, outlet, and/or gfci plug) you can have issues with constant tripping.
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I've heard Mike Holmes saying that as well. . .
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:37 PM   #3025
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.....That being said, using 2 GFCIs in series can cause issues, even when wired properly (for series).......
I agree with the rest of your post but I can't imagine why one would wire ANY receptacles in SERIES, much less a GFCI. Residential power distribution is strictly a parallel game. If any receptacle is wired in series with another receptacle, they share the voltage and most, if not all, appliances would not function.

Now that I think about it, maybe I'm just misunderstanding the terms being used. By "series", are we talking about a gfci attached, in parallel, to the LOAD side of an upstream gfci? If that's the case, then, in theory, there should still be no issues. Of course, if one of the gfcis is not functioning correctly, then all bets are off.

A gfci constantly compares the current in the LINE hot and neutral conductors. If that current is unequal by more than about 6mA then it trips. It is assumed that extra current is traveling to ground through some other path. The LOAD terminals simply extend that monitoring to downstream receptacles.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:12 AM   #3026
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Right now it's underneath the door seal, with something heavy on top of the lid. Now that I have my dual-stage controller (been sitting in the packaging for the past month, since I'm moving this weekend), I'll be doing something I haven't seen before - I'll post pics when it's done.
emjay - Did you ever post pics of your build? I read multiple times that you had something big planned, but never saw a post in this thread with the final product.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:00 AM   #3027
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Originally Posted by gar2376

emjay - Did you ever post pics of your build? I read multiple times that you had something big planned, but never saw a post in this thread with the final product.
How dare you hold me accountable?!

Ha, no. I scrapped the entire thing as I'm putting together an ebrewery and I figured I might as well integrate the fermentation control while I'm at it.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:04 PM   #3028
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Originally Posted by raouliii View Post
Residential power distribution is strictly a parallel game. If any receptacle is wired in series with another receptacle, they share the voltage and most, if not all, appliances would not function.

Now that I think about it, maybe I'm just misunderstanding the terms being used. By "series", are we talking about a gfci attached, in parallel, to the LOAD side of an upstream gfci?
I may have (did) bastardized the terms a bit (a lot), but it was the best I could come up with, especially if you read it in the context of multiple GFCIs and subsequent upstream/downstream descriptors. I was hoping to avoid a 2 page explanation of line, load, losses, op amp summers, etc. When read in context of upstream/downstream it should make sense.

When plugging in his controller box built with a GFCI into the outlet (which may have been controller by a GFCI breaker), he was essentially wiring the downstream GFCI to the 'load' terminals of the upstream GFCI (my bastardized 'series'), instead wiring the downstream GFCI in a 'pigtail' fashion to the line terminals of the upstream GFCI (parallel).

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If that's the case, then, in theory, there should still be no issues. Of course, if one of the gfcis is not functioning correctly, then all bets are off.
I said as much, and more, in my previous post. There are occasionally small current leakages in outlets, and I would guess they may be even more common in GFCI outlets, especially on the line side. Different makes and ages of GFCIs have different trigger levels. I hear that newer ones actually have higher trigger levels than older ones, and this may have been done to help with false triggers of all sorts. I can't think of any other reason to raise the trigger level. I assume the speed/reliability of the circuitry increased, allowing them to safely raise the trigger level while maintaining safety factors.

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A gfci constantly compares the current in the LINE hot and neutral conductors. If that current is unequal by more than about 6mA then it trips. It is assumed that extra current is traveling to ground through some other path. The LOAD terminals simply extend that monitoring to downstream receptacles.
Exactly, and that is why both the line and load losses (if any), from the downstream GFCI are added to any load losses (if any), from the upstream GFCI, which can trigger the upstream GFCI when a second GFCI is wired downstream.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:38 PM   #3029
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Has anyone exceeded the 10 Amp rating on this? I was planning on using a hair dryer for the heat on this, and I looked at it today and saw that it draws 15 Amps.

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Old 09-12-2012, 08:46 PM   #3030
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Has anyone exceeded the 10 Amp rating on this? I was planning on using a hair dryer for the heat on this, and I looked at it today and saw that it draws 15 Amps.
Open the case on your unit (after unplugging it). Check the relays. They may be different than 10A. Mine are 15A. That said, a small space heater can be had for very cheap at walmart/target/big lots/kmart/etc.
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