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Old 10-03-2011, 02:24 AM   #1911
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im about to put CWI and Emjay both on my ignore list.

I think a mod needs to come in here and take out the trash to be honest.

we don't care whose dick is bigger or who went to school or who didn't

fact of the matter is why would you rent a 18 wheeler to move a small lawn mower when a pick up truck works just fine. yeah the 18 wheeler can do it, but why.


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Old 10-03-2011, 02:27 AM   #1912
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fact of the matter is why would you rent a 18 wheeler to move a small lawn mower when a pick up truck works just fine. yeah the 18 wheeler can do it, but why.
Cuz you have a free 18 wheeler sitting around doing nothing?
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:54 AM   #1913
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^ looks great man! Nicely done.
Thanks! It was a fun little project. I've done a bit of electrical stuff before, so it went pretty smooth. Got the temp set around 40F and moved the keg in to its new home. Finally freed up my kitchen fridge! This will get me by while I plan the full freezer to keezer project
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:39 AM   #1914
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Cuz you have a free 18 wheeler sitting around doing nothing?
That makes sense, but the guy was telling someone else to go find an 18 wheeler to use because that's what he is doing since he already had one sitting around.

That exchange was pretty useless, but at least some newbie won't be running around asking geeks for some rare 12V laptop supply to use, or worse burning his fan up with a more common 20V one.

Then again, this thread became fairly useless for finding information long ago. There were at least 3 people on here in the last week that ordered the 220V model.

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I think a mod needs to come in here and take out the trash to be honest.
If you want to get the mods involved, have them make a wiki/sticky entry as the first post where the vital info can be easily located. Not sure what the forum tools used here allow, but I have seen it elsewhere.
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Old 10-03-2011, 04:24 AM   #1915
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That makes sense, but the guy was telling someone else to go find an 18 wheeler to use because that's what he is doing since he already had one sitting around.

That exchange was pretty useless, but at least some newbie won't be running around asking geeks for some rare 12V laptop supply to use, or worse burning his fan up with a more common 20V one.
Ah... well I can agree with this. I wasn't suggesting that people go out of their way specifically to find a laptop charger.

And the whole argument itself was beyond silly. You initially got offended because I responded as if you didn't understand some pretty basic stuff, but I had not intended to offend... you simply hadn't made it clear why you thought a laptop charger would be much more wasteful, and so I had thought you were misunderstanding those basic principles, and was merely trying to be helpful. It was NOT to insult your intelligence or call into question your education or qualifications... I don't know you, so you can't expect me to just automatically know your particular level of understanding. I went with the safer bet, and I'm sorry that it apparently offended you.

However, the silliest part of all this is the speculation-laden novels we both bothered to keep posting. And the reason I'm referring to it all as speculation is that the answer to this is really simple to find out... it doesn't take much to irrefutably demonstrate just how much more wasteful (if at all) that laptop chargers can be. All one has to do is measure the draw of both types of adapters while running the exact same fan at 12V, and compare them.

And so, not so much to continue the argument as to satisfy my own curiosity and perhaps provide the forum with some useful data, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Compare the actual real-world numbers, and everything else becomes utterly meaningless.
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Old 10-03-2011, 04:34 AM   #1916
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Default Finished my build

Man this thread is so off topic i am tempted to not update with my build photos.

I went with a 6X6X4 utility box from Lowes. I wanted some airspace because the little unit got pretty warm while i was testing it.

I wired mine to power two separate outlets. one on the hot cycle and one on the cold. I have two PC fans on an old cell phone charger that i plugged in as well as the A/C unit.

I also grabbed a mono audio headphone plug and jack from radio shack. wired the probe up with those so i can remove it if necessary.

photo-1.jpg   photo-2.jpg   photo-3.jpg   photo-4.jpg  
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:06 AM   #1917
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Ah... well I can agree with this. I wasn't suggesting that people go out of their way specifically to find a laptop charger.
No, but the other guy was which is what my initial post was about.
I was trying to keep it to a simple example without talking about inverse %eff vs %utilization relationships and so forth.

I wasn't so much offended by having additional instructive info (even if I didn't need it), it was that the info added nothing but confusion, and attempted to downplay my point about efficiency. If you were a power supply designer and could provide some current real world numbers, that would have been useful. I hate power engineering, and am just going off memory for some graphs of efficiency for various supplies, and they all tanked at <20% utilization.

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All one has to do is measure the draw of both types of adapters while running the exact same fan at 12V, and compare them.

And so, not so much to continue the argument as to satisfy my own curiosity and perhaps provide the forum with some useful data, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Compare the actual real-world numbers, and everything else becomes utterly meaningless.
That would provide some good data, but it is a small sample. There is a lot of variability among supplies. If you are using a modern (switching) 5W wall wart, it will almost surely have less total draw than a modern 150W laptop brick (also switching) used at <5% capacity. The older laptop bricks and linear wall warts are all over the map on efficiency.
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:21 AM   #1918
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Yeah, I realize that. Mine would both be VERY modern examples - both manufactured in 2011 (purchased weeks apart) and both even have a voltage selector - so it should at least give a realistic picture.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to find an older laptop adapter that'll do 12V though (as I believe that's really only used for netbooks) so in practical terms I doubt it matters much anyways.

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Old 10-03-2011, 05:41 AM   #1919
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Originally Posted by kickrjason View Post
I went with a 6X6X4 utility box from Lowes. I wanted some airspace because the little unit got pretty warm while i was testing it.
I also grabbed a mono audio headphone plug and jack from radio shack. wired the probe up with those so i can remove it if necessary.
That is a nice setup. The utility box seems like a better solution than the radio shack project box. I couldn't find one in home depot before the GF started to whine, so I just used a double outlet box. I need to redo it with one of these.

I am seeing the advantages of a removable sensor the more I use this. That will be part of the redo as well.

I was surprised at the heat output as well. They claim 3W for the head unit. The components are probably heat tolerant to 60C or so, so it shouldn't be an issue even in a small box.
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:55 AM   #1920
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Yeah, I realize that. Mine would both be VERY modern examples - both manufactured in 2011 (purchased weeks apart) and both even have a voltage selector - so it should at least give a realistic picture.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to find an older laptop adapter that'll do 12V though (as I believe that's really only used for netbooks) so in practical terms I doubt it matters much anyways.
If you have a low power wall wart with adjustable V settings, it will probably be most efficient at the highest V setting, but that is a just a guess that they hacked up a voltage divider to get the different voltages.

Weight is usually a good indicator if the wart is a switching design. Cell phones seem to come with lighter adapters than other devices.

Same principle goes for some aftermarket laptop bricks that are light(er). I think they may use PWM or something, and are very efficient across the entire output range.
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