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Old 10-02-2011, 02:43 PM   #1901
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1. Temperature destratification- which is an issue in chest freezers.
2. Increased thermal transfer, especially for active fermentations.
3. Less cycling since the fan (generally) distrubutes the heat (cold) preventing the sensor from hitting the set point before the other thermal masses which are usually larger than the mass the sensor is in/on.
4. Humidity. It can help resolve mild humidity issues.
5. Keeps faucets colder due to both decreased temp stratification and increased heat (cold) transfer to the shanks.
1 & 5 were the keys for me, so I tried leaving my fan running all the time ... a lot of guys here seem to do that, and I agreed with their point that the 2W used by the fan would be a small price to pay for better keezer performance ... but I noticed that my keezer was actually cycling more often, which in retrospect makes sense since I was gaining more heat through the top and the faucets by keeping them cooler ... I didn't perform a scientific study, but since I'm quite happy with the performance of the keezer with the fan only running concurrent with the compressor, I decided it wasn't worth any extra money.


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My keezer build thread --> Mid-Missouri freezer conversion

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Old 10-02-2011, 07:25 PM   #1902
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I just bought the STC-1000 off ebay for 19.99 from a guy in Hong Kong with free shipping. Got a GE 7.0 coming on Wednesday from HD and will get the install done then hopefully. Going to use this as a fermenter until I find a cheaper smaller version to hold two carboys, then I will ferment in that and use the GE for a keezer. That's why I went with this aquarium setup because it seems like it can be taken out and moved to another freezer painlessly, correct?

Anyone have an exact list to take with me to radio shack on things to pick up? I'm been through the thread, but it's too all over the place for me, I'll probably miss something.

Like I said, having the freezer delivered Wednesday, wondering where I should have them put it. In the garage or living room? We have space in both, just wondering if it's easier to have the freezer inside so I don't have to install a heater or lightbulb to keep it warm. Will get down to freezing outside (not sure about in the garage, but cold) during the winter here.



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Old 10-02-2011, 07:35 PM   #1903
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The only other things you should need are the project box from Radio Shack and an outlet from home depot.

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Old 10-02-2011, 10:42 PM   #1904
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So I really misunderstood where your bad assumptions were coming from. Doesn't make you right.
You misunderstanding something isn't what makes me right, me being right makes me right. And, I would say you are the one making bad assumptions.
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I know these things aren't 100% efficient - which is why I used the word "virtually" rather than "exactly",
Virtually 100% efficient? They are not even close, more like 50%, especially a wall wart or old laptop adapter under a 2% load. Which is what I stated in my original post- almost as much heat as juice. Whose assumptions are bad?

I also clearly stated in my original 4 line post that I was talking about waste heat caused by inefficient adapters. Based on that, I don't know what you misunderstood, or how you could have assumed that I knew nothing about basic electronic circuits. Then, you go on a 500 word didactic essay that doesn't even address adaptor efficiency, which is what I posted about.

In general, power adapter type devices are most efficient at ~75% of design limits, and at most are 85% efficient. I have seen specs as low as 50%, and things just get worse the less draw that is placed on it. A muffin fan would only draw ~2% of the capacity of a 100W laptop adapter.

Here are some "exactly"s for you-
Your opening line even.
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Um, not really. The energy used will generally be the exact same. The only way a laptop charger would by any different would be if you compared it to a wall wart that happens to be UNDERPOWERED for the task.
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And since they are going to supply the exact same amount of power, they are going to USE the same amount of power.
There are probably more, I didn't bother finding all of them.
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Well clearly you've felt a laptop charger powering a laptop. And yes, it gets pretty hot. Have you ever felt a laptop charger powering a PC fan? Obviously not, you've already written it off.
I don't need to feel it, except maybe in your "virtual" world. In my world, I can predict the loss using physics.
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I have... I use one for my stirplate. And I can tell you right now that the brick doesn't produce any appreciable heat. I know these things aren't 100% efficient - which is why I used the word "virtually" rather than "exactly", but the temperature increase is so low that it's hard to tell if you're really feeling any warmth at all.
The % loss to heat doesn't go away just because it is at a low draw, and in reality it actually gets worse. I stated this in my previous response as well as how your assumption was exactly the opposite and incorrect.
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Do you have any idea what 15W of heat spread over that brick would feel like? 20W? You probably do, actually, since it's not hard to have something to compare it to. And I can assure you it comes nowhere close to any of those.
I believe the number I gave was 15 watts total (fan+heat), and I just made that up, so it would only be ~12W of heat, which is probably a bit high since it means ~20% eff, but quite possible depending on the adapter. 5 watts would be almost imperceptible, based on your own evidence, since that is probably close to the heat loss for the adapter used on your stir plate. So what was your point?
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And sure, if you stick the brick in the freezer, it's going to warm up things a tiny bit. The question is... why would you need to even do that? I haven't seen many (if any) builds that provide receptacles on the inside of the freezer, so the cord is going to have to be on the outside anyways. If the build DOES have outlets on the inside... then I'll concede that it's probably not the best idea for them.
I have seen no end to the lengths people go to make things look "cleaner". I am quite certain someone out there has placed both the fan AND adapter in the keezer. It is not a massive waste of power or anything, but being wasteful just for looks and also getting worse temp control seems a bit much.
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But even regardless of all this... your assertion that you might even exceed the power consumption of a chest freezer is complete and utter nonsense. I suggest you take a look at some typical specs again, it's just not even close.
A chest freezer consumes less than 40W on average, and that is for freezer temps. For maintaining ferm temps, which is the case I stated previously, that number should be less than 20W. That is consumed power. The COP of the freezer would probably be < 1 for this type of use, so less than 20W is being exhausted from the freezer.

You do realize that EXACTLY 100% of the power to the fan eventually goes to heat. Well, maybe a tiny bit to RF. So EXACTLY 100% of the power into the adapter will go to heat one way or another. 10W total to run a 3-5W fan is quite possible when using an old adapter at low utilization. An above average setup would be 60% eff, so total heat would be 5-7W.

For total waste heat vs keezer power usage (at ferm temps), best case scenario (for me), and I am at >75%, and ~50% for an above average setup. How is that complete and utter nonsense? Or not even close?

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I suggest you take a look at some typical specs again, it's just not even close.
I suggest you speak about things you of which you are more knowledgeable, or argue with someone less knowledgeable.
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:39 PM   #1905
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cwi

You really feel the need to be right. I can tell this by the wall of text that you have left on several occasions to assert your superiority.In the grand scheme of things, people are going to be wrong, but they seem to get a whole lot done without spending 100k on a EE degree.
To this end, welcome to my ignore list. You are the first!!
Now I can get back to viewing the thread.

Have a nice day.

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Old 10-02-2011, 11:57 PM   #1906
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Uh... cwl, bud. The whole point of your initial post was that a laptop charger would be so much less efficient than a wall wart that it wouldn't be worth using, which is what I disagreed with, and your recent post has seemed to totally let go of that fact, arguing God-knows-what this time.

With this in mind, go back and rewrite some sort of relevance into your novel.

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Old 10-03-2011, 12:21 AM   #1907
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Uh... cwl, bud. The whole point of your initial post was that a laptop charger would be so much less efficient than a wall wart that it wouldn't be worth using, which is what I disagreed with, and your recent post has seemed to totally let go of that fact, arguing God-knows-what this time.

With this in mind, go back and rewrite some sort of relevance into your novel.
You seemed to latch onto the whole "using as much power as the keezer" issue, so I answered it.
Within that explanation is why an old laptop supply could use more power than a wall wart. Given similar designs, a properly sized power supply will always be more efficient than an oversized one. This was stated explicitly, several times, in my response. How much more relevance can I put in?

It was more along the lines of given both, or searching for one or the other, pick a properly sized wall wart ("switching" ones designed like newer laptop adapters are available). It isn't a whole lot of power, 5-10W difference at most. So if you have only have a old 12V laptop supply, it would likely amount to only an extra ~$0.50/month if left on continuously. A really inefficient wall wart would be just as bad.

With this in mind, go back and put some comprehension into your reading.

And don't forget, you were the first novelist (lecturer may fit better).
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:25 AM   #1908
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cwi

You really feel the need to be right. I can tell this by the wall of text that you have left on several occasions to assert your superiority.In the grand scheme of things, people are going to be wrong, but they seem to get a whole lot done without spending 100k on a EE degree.
To this end, welcome to my ignore list. You are the first!!
Now I can get back to viewing the thread.

Have a nice day.
You feel the need to not admit you were wrong. You recommended the guy search out a laptop power supply, I disagreed and gave several reason why. You came back with the standard "I do what I want", which is fine, but if you recommend your way to someone else, that goes a bit beyond that.

I added the bit about an EE degree because the other guy made a point to spew a bunch of circuits 101 information that had no information related to my post.
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Old 10-03-2011, 01:14 AM   #1909
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Thought I'd share photos of my build! Used information from this thread and this link: http://www.mrbeerfans.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/213369/Dual_Stage_Temp_Controller_for.html

















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Old 10-03-2011, 01:52 AM   #1910
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^ looks great man! Nicely done.



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