That Dreaded First-Beer Foam...

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wspnut

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I'm so tired of pouring out the first 1/3 of a glass every time I want a beer from my keezer!

I've run cold water through copper piping in the tower to keep the beer lines cool, and it works great. The foam that comes out is COLD so it doesn't seem to be a temperature issue.

I cleaned the beer line pretty intensely before I put this last keg in, so I don't think it's a dirty line causing bubbles.

My keg of Sam Adams is sitting at 38F, at about 10-11PSI with a 5-foot 3/16" ID beerline. Maybe the PSI is too much? But all beers after the first pour wonderfully.

I'm still getting foam for my first 1/3 of a beer! If I pour it out, I get well-poured beers from there on out unless I let the lines sit for a while, and then the foam will build back up.

The only thing I could think of is that the beer is foaming for some reason within the line if it sits for long enough, and the foam is rising to the top of the tube to be expelled first. The problem is... I don't know why it's doing that! Is there any way to stop this or should I just invest in a drip pan with a drain...

:confused:
 
Cold air sinks, so there tends to be a temperature gradient in refrigerators. They are coldest in the bottom (where your beer is) and warmer at the top (where your beer lines are). Typically when you get a foamy first pour and then it goes away, that is indicative a warm lines and the CO2 is coming out of solution. In subsequent pours the beer is cooling the lines so the CO2 stays in solution.

I know you have a copper piping cooling thingie in your tower, but maybe its not working that well?
 
Just because the foam is cold, doesn't mean it's not warmer still than the beer that follows. 40° is cold beer, but 35° is colder. Pour you're 1/3rd glass then pour another glass. Measure both temperatures.
 
yeah - has to be warm beer. Have you tried putting a fan in the keezer? Can you explain the cooper pipe/water cooling methods? Is the tower insulated?

Pics go a long way!
 
I guess this has transitioned into a "any better tips for cooling my tower?" post :D

The copper tubing is very, very cold in the tower... but it may not be penetrating the vinyl lines well enough to actually cool the beer enough.
 
yeah - has to be warm beer. Have you tried putting a fan in the keezer? Can you explain the cooper pipe/water cooling methods? Is the tower insulated?

Pics go a long way!

I'll try and have some pictures up tonight!

At first I had a homemade blower in the tower (my first attempt at cooling) and it circulated air fairly well, but the 3" tower just didn't allow a large enough blower tube to really make a big difference. I replaced that system with my new copper piping one.

The system I use right now is a 100GPH pond pump in a bucket of water sitting in the keezer (38F) that circulates water through copper piping that goes up and back down the tower, with the beer lines sitting next to the cold copper.

The tower only has the insulation that came with the system (see: not much). I bought some 3/4" pipe insulation for it, but there's no way I can fit it in with the beer lines and copper tubing I have in. Any other suggestions for insulation would be very, very welcomed.

I may just have too small a tower (3" diameter) to get three beer lines, cooling lines, and insulation in. I could get a tower with glycol lines built in but it'd be a very expensive purchase I'd like to avoid.
 
Pour your first beer that is mostly foam, then pour a perfect second one in another glass. drink number 2 while the foam settles in the first one, when finished with the second pour, top up number one and drink that. No more wasted beer!
 
Pour your first beer that is mostly foam, then pour a perfect second one in another glass. drink number 2 while the foam settles in the first one, when finished with the second pour, top up number one and drink that. No more wasted beer!

Basically what I do now :D Just trying to make the system *perfect* :)
 
i'll let people chime in who have actually done it before, but from what i've seen from the builds on here, i think most people run the beer lines through copper, leaving a few inches of copper exposed into the cold air of the freezer, then spray foam the inside of the tower, and have a fan to keep the air circulating.
 
I've always had the same problem, but I guess I just gave in and thought that was how it had to be.... Hopefully someone here has found a fix to this problem.
 
I've always had the same problem, but I guess I just gave in and thought that was how it had to be.... Hopefully someone here has found a fix to this problem.

If you've got the money, this seems like a really good solution to me:
http://www.beveragefactory.com/draf...KR_stainless_glycol_3_faucet_beer_tower.shtml

Uses a "kool-rite" module to make sure the beer is super-cold (and insulated) all the way to the dispensing point. Would be my preferred method of choice (when I get the spare cash...)
 
IMO, the problem is that the beer lines are likely considerably warmer than the kegs or the tower. The air in a converted freezer will stratify and it can be as much as 15 degrees or more warmer near the top than at the bottom. The beer lines are in this warmer zone. You can easily check the difference with a cheap indoor/outdoor thermometer which is what I did. The solution is cheap and easy. I installed a 120 mm computer fan which circulates the air and maintains very uniform temperature throughout. I run the fan continuously.
 
IMO, the problem is that the beer lines are likely considerably warmer than the kegs or the tower. The air in a converted freezer will stratify and it can be as much as 15 degrees or more warmer near the top than at the bottom. The beer lines are in this warmer zone. You can easily check the difference with a cheap indoor/outdoor thermometer which is what I did. The solution is cheap and easy. I installed a 120 mm computer fan which circulates the air and maintains very uniform temperature throughout. I run the fan continuously.

I had that system before and it didn't really work super-well. Any tips on getting the airflow running in such a tight space?
 
This pic is somewhat dated as I have since insulated the collar, but it shows how I positioned the fan:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2777/4187313347_c089ea8e64_z.jpg

Basically, the fan is blowing the warmer air downward and mixing with the cooler air. Running the fan continuously works the best. The warmer air naturally rises where the fan intercepts it and blows it back down towards the bottom. I'm certain that the air circulation is not perfect throughout the freezer, but it's way more than close enough. I also like that warm kegs cool much faster with the fan running and I don't have problems with the keg bottoms freezing as I did at one time.
 
I use a single blower fan with 2 tubes sending cold air from the bottom of the freezer into the top of my 2 towers and it works well. I don't even run it full speed. I got the fan kit on ebay but I think it makes a big difference between a normal blade fan and a blower (squirrel cage) for airflow. Another thing you can do is just have longer beer lines. I have around 8' of 3/16 ID beverage tube. It's not just the tube, the faucets have to be cold, too.
 
I use a single blower fan with 2 tubes sending cold air from the bottom of the freezer into the top of my 2 towers and it works well. I don't even run it full speed. I got the fan kit on ebay but I think it makes a big difference between a normal blade fan and a blower (squirrel cage) for airflow. Another thing you can do is just have longer beer lines. I have around 8' of 3/16 ID beverage tube. It's not just the tube, the faucets have to be cold, too.

Yea the shanks need to be coldest, actually. That's why I was considering ponying up for a tower with a kool-rite module.
 
A cheap fix might be to try 10 foot lines on one tap. Just one. See if that fixes the issue somewhat. It won't fix the temperature issue, but if it fixes the foaming, then it's been fixed well enough.
 
I used to have the same problem until my wife remembered something she learned while working at a beer bar. Try opening your tap all the way for a second then quickly shut it off. Wait 30 seconds then pour the rest of the beer. Theoretically the beer from the keg cools the beer in the lines and stops it from foaming. All I know is I haven't had a foamy pint since.
 
SaltyHog said:
I used to have the same problem until my wife remembered something she learned while working at a beer bar. Try opening your tap all the way for a second then quickly shut it off. Wait 30 seconds then pour the rest of the beer. Theoretically the beer from the keg cools the beer in the lines and stops it from foaming. All I know is I haven't had a foamy pint since.

This is a logical and simple idea, I love it. I get over foam from time to time and will try this technique.
 
I used to have the same problem until my wife remembered something she learned while working at a beer bar. Try opening your tap all the way for a second then quickly shut it off. Wait 30 seconds then pour the rest of the beer. Theoretically the beer from the keg cools the beer in the lines and stops it from foaming. All I know is I haven't had a foamy pint since.

Do you pour out the foam that you get from the 1-second opening, or do you leave it in? I'd imagine that cold beer hitting the foam would cause the rest of the beer to foam as well, and since I usually drink beers with pretty hefty head-retention I'm not sure it would dissipate greatly in 30 seconds.
 
I leave the foam in the pint glass. It may not work well for all beers but it's working well for the two microbrews I have on tap currently(a pale ale and a pilsner). I don't have any homebrew kegged yet so I can't be sure that it will continue to work well.
I think that it also depends heavily on the kegerator in question.
 
I have this same problem and I dont pull beer into a tower, just taps in the front of the kegerator... i just drink it and be happy i have homebrew!!... i will try the open and close trick and see if that helps... i have thought it might be the difference in temperature in the shanks and faucits.
 
SaltyHog said:
I used to have the same problem until my wife remembered something she learned while working at a beer bar. Try opening your tap all the way for a second then quickly shut it off. Wait 30 seconds then pour the rest of the beer. Theoretically the beer from the keg cools the beer in the lines and stops it from foaming. All I know is I haven't had a foamy pint since.[/QUOTE

This trick has served me well for years+1
 
I do the same thing as saltyhog. Don't forget that depending on the temperature of the room your 'rater sits in (mine is in a warm, summertime garage at the moment) the actual beer faucets can be considerably warmer that the beer or the beer lines. When the first fraction of the first pint flows through my warm faucets, I get instant foaming. Touching the Perlick a few moments later and it's now significantly cooler to the touch... lo and behold perfect pours follow... and as long as the interval between pours isn't too long (ahem) I don't have any foaming issues in the garage.
 
I have a cup that I "purge" my lines with before I pour my pints. Open the valve for a second or less, then pour yourself a perfect pint. This will do two things, get any gunk you have in your tap out, and cool the lines, faucet, etc.
 
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