New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > DIY Projects > Direct fire copper tubing...




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-24-2008, 01:25 AM   #1
Grimsawyer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 886
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default Direct fire copper tubing...

Had a thought with another post. I havn't seen anyone yet that heats copper tubing with direct fire to get desired temps similar in idea to inline steam injection or a heat tube. I wouldn't think it'd be a good idea with wort but is it a good idea with water? Would it work similar to an infinate hot water heater? How much copper tubing would it take? What kind of burner would it take? I imagine that if a corny keg or similar diameter cylinder was cut up to make a cowling it would definately work better. I think a pressure relief valve somewhere would also be a must.



__________________

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. They wake up in the morning and that's as good as they're going to feel all day." -Dean Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyingBeer
...no sense hauling empty carboys around when full ones take up just as much space. :)
Grimsawyer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-26-2008, 03:30 AM   #2
kladue
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Turner, Oregon, Oregon most of the time now
Posts: 2,294
Liked 43 Times on 40 Posts

Default

Would you want to copy the boiler on the old rig, but use copper tubing?. The old boiler is 4-10' lengths of 1/4" SS tube over a 6" 55 K burner. If you built one with 1/4" copper tube you could probably get by with 20-30 feet of tubing inside a 6" section of stove pipe, with one of the 4" metal fusion burners you could probably hit .5 gpm @140 deg rise. The more tubing you use the higher the flow rate you can run with 100+ degree rise. If you want to build one I would should you how to make the customized cross fittings for inlet and outlets, the rest of the construction is yours to learn on. Here is a few pictures of the old one http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/InstantWaterHeater



__________________
kladue is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-26-2008, 10:37 AM   #3
Grimsawyer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 886
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

I was just thinking to keep it simple I could coil up about 30ish feet of copper 1/4 copper and coil the hell out of it with a similar burner to what you have for that set up. ( maybe order a banjo burner, dunno still goofing with the idea )I'm pulling inspiration from both that design and THIS thread. Would it be good enough for only water for fear of scorchin the hell out of wort? I'm thinking more along the lines of rinsing grains and filling the mash tun with it. I don't like to rinse more than one quart per min. (otherwise in my experience my efficency sux!). Would a big copper coil suffice or would it actually be beneficial to drill and tap/silver solder the top plane of 2 swegelock 4 point fittings and get all complicated? I'm sure surface area would play a part in how important it would be but if a single coil of tubing was coiled to resemble a cone shape? Would that work better or worse than the 4 seperate coils? Also I havn't set a heighth restriction on this coiled monstrosity! it could be as small as 1 foot or as big as 5 feet! Dosnt' matter to me. It would be replacing my HLT so there would be space no matter how much it would take up!

__________________

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. They wake up in the morning and that's as good as they're going to feel all day." -Dean Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyingBeer
...no sense hauling empty carboys around when full ones take up just as much space. :)

Last edited by Grimsawyer; 04-26-2008 at 10:46 AM.
Grimsawyer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-26-2008, 12:46 PM   #4
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 21,734
Liked 853 Times on 572 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

I'm guessing that you'd want to coil it so that each coil varied in diameter unlike an IC. You don't want heat to be able to just fly past the coils. Another thing I was thinking was using heating baseboard since they have all those aluminum fins on the length of the pipe. Picture cutting 4 sections and standing them up in this stack. You'd use elbows to keep the flow running in series. I also have this cool coil that I salvaged out of an oil fired heating system. This was the source of hot water in the house. It looks like it ought to work, but I'm thinking about putting an electric element into a corny and installing this.


__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2008, 07:10 AM   #5
Grimsawyer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 886
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M
I'm guessing that you'd want to coil it so that each coil varied in diameter unlike an IC. You don't want heat to be able to just fly past the coils...
YES! Exactly. How tall should the stack be? Should I choke the top down with a reducer to retain more heat for the coils to collect or should it just be open? I was thinking another idea for the copper coil is to get a 3" pipe and wrap some 50' of copper tubing around it tightly to get a single tight coil. Then uncoil only parts of the coil to take up space inside the 6" pipe so that it would be more surface area more evenly distributed throughout the pipe. How does that idea sound?
__________________

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. They wake up in the morning and that's as good as they're going to feel all day." -Dean Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyingBeer
...no sense hauling empty carboys around when full ones take up just as much space. :)
Grimsawyer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2008, 01:11 PM   #6
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 21,734
Liked 853 Times on 572 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

I think it will be pretty difficult to acheive a shape that will be variable in diameter and also fit nicely in a stack. You might just go with a double coil. Wrap a tight coil around 3" pipe, then insert that inside a 4" pipe and continue wrapping in the other direction. I guess putting a 6" to 4" reducer on the top would help hold heat but you want to test to see if the burner runs clean like that. Reducing the exhaust will reduce the fresh air intake too.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2008, 08:21 PM   #7
Grimsawyer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 886
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Well, it's off to the scrap yard to look for some treasures. Maybe i'll find a buttload of copper cheap... Maybe I won't but I'll find something else fun. Never know with that place!

__________________

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. They wake up in the morning and that's as good as they're going to feel all day." -Dean Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyingBeer
...no sense hauling empty carboys around when full ones take up just as much space. :)
Grimsawyer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-29-2008, 07:30 AM   #8
Grimsawyer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 886
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

I LOVE the scrap yard!!!!! $24.00 for THIS COPPER TUBING!!!!!!!!!!





I'm thinking about using the burner off of THIS turkey fryer for the burner in the boil stack and upgrading the burner in that unit to a banjo burner for a more aggressive boil kettle burner. Checked out stove pipe at lowes and I'm thinking 6" might be ok if I can get creative about how I coil up my copper. The burner I'm thinking about using is 5.5 inches across so using a 4" stove pipe, sadly, is out. I'm goofing with the idea of coiling the copper down a 2.5" pvc pipe and unrolling a section here and there to take up space inside the stove pipe. A risky move becaue if I screw up my twenty four bucks are gone. After looking at the stove pipe my biggest hurdle is going to be figuring out how to keep the stove pipe together. I doubt that duct tape will work for the temps that will be blowing by. I'd like to get a SS double walled stove pipe section from the scrap yard but they are asking $35 bucks and just a galvanized section from lowes is just $5. For another $5 I can add an 8" pipe around the 6" pipe to make it double walled myself.

__________________

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. They wake up in the morning and that's as good as they're going to feel all day." -Dean Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyingBeer
...no sense hauling empty carboys around when full ones take up just as much space. :)
Grimsawyer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-29-2008, 07:37 AM   #9
Grimsawyer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 886
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Would it matter which way the water flowed? If you put the cold water in from the top where the heat is undoubtedly the least then the water out at the bottom where the heat is the most wouldn't the water come out hotter? Kind of like a counter current wort chiller.

__________________

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. They wake up in the morning and that's as good as they're going to feel all day." -Dean Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyingBeer
...no sense hauling empty carboys around when full ones take up just as much space. :)
Grimsawyer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-29-2008, 11:27 AM   #10
kladue
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Turner, Oregon, Oregon most of the time now
Posts: 2,294
Liked 43 Times on 40 Posts

Default

You could roll two 10' pieces of copper tube around a piece of 2" pvc pipe, spread coils 3/8" apart and mesh two coils together. After meshing coils measure length of coils and drill holes in side of stove pipe to match, and work tubing ends through sides of stove pipe and install fittings on outside for water in/out. Make bottom of coils at least 4" above top of burner to get complete combustion of the gas flame before it hits coils. Water inlet should be at the bottom inlet as the dissolved air in the water forms bubbles inside of the tubing and rescticts flow at low flow rates ( lesson learned on old system) in a down flow configuration.



__________________

Last edited by kladue; 04-29-2008 at 12:25 PM.
kladue is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beersmith and Direct Fire MLTs aekdbbop Brewing Software 1 10-24-2009 03:32 PM
Direct Fire Mash vs. HERMS etc. - again korndog All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 14 05-15-2008 05:07 AM
hows this look for a Direct fire mash tun? aekdbbop Equipment/Sanitation 2 05-08-2008 05:20 PM
Direct fire mash tun? BrewSapiens Equipment/Sanitation 8 04-27-2008 04:21 PM
Direct fire mashtuns.. aekdbbop All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 30 01-17-2008 12:34 AM