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Old 01-14-2010, 10:20 PM   #1
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Default Damn it!

I'm getting very frustrated with my Brutus clone. So far with just water test runs I've observed the following:

I set my temp and the burners kick on with nice blue flames and shut off perfectly at my set point. The problem is after the burners shut off at my set point, the temps keep climbing for another 3-5 degrees.

I'm using Auber SYL-1512A controllers and I've double checked all my settings and calibrated my RTD sensors twice against a Thermapen.

My system is pretty close to Lonnie's. I'm using the 10-tip jet burners on low pressure propane. The burners are probably sitting lower than Lonnie's. The frame does get fairly hot. I will say one thing, the high-temp powder coat on it seems to hold up great.

I've gotta be missing something, I shouldn't have to fudge my set points 3-5 degrees low just to get the damn thing to work.

....I need a beer

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Old 01-14-2010, 10:49 PM   #2
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This depends on a few factors. Where are you taking your temps and are you recirculating during this process? There is no way to precisely control static water that is being heated.

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Old 01-14-2010, 11:01 PM   #3
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The man himself!

Thanks for the quick response. The sensors are on t-fittings at the output of my kettles and I am recirculating during this. I was recirculating fairly slowly like I would during an actual mash.

Is only heating water the issue? I know it'll behave a bit differently with a full mash in the kettle. But then again, the HLT is only ever going to have water in it like tonight.

I'm starting to wonder if I'll have to throw a bunch more money at this to install some more controllable burners. I really hope not.

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Old 01-14-2010, 11:50 PM   #4
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It will act a bit differently with the mash indeed... Mine will usually hold dead on within a degree or maybe two. Usually I may set my set-point to a degree below my actual. My friend, I don't think we can get that precise here though. I know of no system that will hold to within a degree or two. I would really like to understand your exact processes though. So if you have the HLT recirculating lets say medium or so, the probe is at the heat source, (outlet tee) like you say, then the entire volume can simply not exceed this temperature. How are you measuring your overshoot? Do you stop and take a measurement?

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Old 01-15-2010, 01:09 AM   #5
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That's correct, the HLT is recirculating with the ball valve on the outlet of the pump about halfway open. In my test that I did tonight, which is just testing the ability to maintain temps, I set the controller to 130 degrees. The burner fired continuously until it reached 130 and shut off. Then as I was watching the controller the reading slowly kept climbing to 131, 132 and up to 134, which I verified by taking a measurement on the return with a handheld thermometer. It held steady at 133-135 for about 5 minutes before it started dropping very slowly back to 130 and the burner kicked on again.

Now that's not such a big deal with the HLT but the difference between a beer mashed 150 and 154, or 154 and 158 will definitely effect what was intended. I agree, a degree or two is to be expected but 3-5 degrees is a little too much for comfort.

I noticed the frame is too hot to keep your finger on for more than a second so I'm wondering if the kettles are absorbing that?

I think I'm just going to have to throw caution to the wind, brew the beer I was planning this weekend. And of course relax, don't worry and have a homebrew.

Lonnie, thanks so much for the help, it's much appreciated, cheers!

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Old 01-15-2010, 01:48 AM   #6
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Yes my friend... So you have discovered inadvertently why I have the analog thermometers in my pots. You are measuring the mean outlet temps, which is a great indication of well, the mean outlet temps! The overall temp of the whole volume is what you are concerned with, and they should be right where you are setting them...

Indeed, brew on! And let us know how it goes for you. Every system has it's own little quirks, and part of the fun is learning these...

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Old 01-15-2010, 02:27 AM   #7
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Can You set you Auber within +/-2 degrees for your mash temp? or maybe even a degree? I would rather see +/- 1-2 degrees and continue to cycle and over-temp by 5-6 degrees. I understand the residual temp may creep up a bit but how about a program that will account for this creep?
In your "T" where you are taking a temp is it a tight fit with the thermowell and the temp probe?

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Old 01-15-2010, 12:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by churdbird View Post
Can You set you Auber within +/-2 degrees for your mash temp? or maybe even a degree? I would rather see +/- 1-2 degrees and continue to cycle and over-temp by 5-6 degrees. I understand the residual temp may creep up a bit but how about a program that will account for this creep?
In your "T" where you are taking a temp is it a tight fit with the thermowell and the temp probe?
I haven't tried fudging the set temps a degree or two low yet. I'm going to brew an ordinary bitter this weekend and see how everything works out.

My sensors are 2" liquid tight RTD's

They don't look like they would cause much if any restriction. My output is a quick disconnect to a 1/2" t-fitting to a 1/2" to 1/4" bushing to the sensor.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:17 PM   #9
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A question, did you have the false bottom installed? or just an open connection inside the mash tun. A false bottom and the mash will trap the heat at the pickup point for the drain and give different results when you run the system.

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Old 01-15-2010, 01:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladue View Post
A question, did you have the false bottom installed? or just an open connection inside the mash tun. A false bottom and the mash will trap the heat at the pickup point for the drain and give different results when you run the system.
Yes I did have the false bottom in the MLT. I'll have to take some pics and put them up now that I upgraded my account. I know you guys love beer pron
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