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**CodeRage** · 10-26-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarkinBanks

JK is right on. After some experimenting and a lot of "Pol" reading on here, a 7 gal boil with one 2KW element will not cut it. I built my clone with two 2KW elements and it will give 7 gallons a rip roaring boil. I plug my second element into a separate circuit in my kitchen for the boil and throttle the other element in my PID back to 75%. This gives me 3500W for my full boil.

Sorry to go off topic here but I keep seeing 75%=3500W output and I dont get it.

I have an auber PID and when put into manual with a value of 75% it still is max wattage but the duty cycle is changed to 75%. I can hear my kettle with a 4500W element die down and then go to a roaring boil and continue to cycle. My At is set to 0 so it isn't because my minimum duration is set too high. It sure as heck isn't PWM because it is entirely way too slow.

Unless you mean 75% is the average of x many Watts over 100% cycle time, you are still blasting your wort with 100% power.

I believe there is an allusion that you can fine tune the amount of instantaneous heat being applied to the wort, which isn't true. At least not with this equipment.

HarkinBanks · 10-26-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeRage

Sorry to go off topic here but I keep seeing 75%=3500W output and I dont get it.

I have an auber PID and when put into manual with a value of 75% it still is max wattage but the duty cycle is changed to 75%. I can hear my kettle with a 4500W element die down and then go to a roaring boil and continue to cycle. My At is set to 0 so it isn't because my minimum duration is set too high. It sure as heck isn't PWM because it is entirely way too slow.

Unless you mean 75% is the average of x many Watts over 100% cycle time, you are still blasting your wort with 100% power.

I believe there is an allusion that you can fine tune the amount of instantaneous heat being applied to the wort, which isn't true. At least not with this equipment.

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to PIDs, hell, JK drew me a diagram on how to wire it. I just know when I set my PID to 75% with my other element on 100%, I get a roaring boil on 7 gallons. That's all I need to know.

**CodeRage** · 10-26-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarkinBanks

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to PIDs, hell, JK drew me a diagram on how to wire it. I just know when I set my PID to 75% with my other element on 100%, I get a roaring boil on 7 gallons. That's all I need to know.

I wasn't directing anything at you bud. I have seen that math pop up here and there and it always kind of struck me funny. With several brews on my new system I finally felt experienced enough to say something.
Perhaps I have something set up wrong.

You are right. End of the day it does help control boil off rates which is all that matters.

HarkinBanks · 10-26-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeRage

I wasn't directing anything at you bud. I have seen that math pop up here and there and it always kind of struck me funny. With several brews on my new system I finally felt experienced enough to say something.
Perhaps I have something set up wrong.

You are right. End of the day it does help control boil off rates which is all that matters.

Oh no problem, I am always happy to admit where my knowledge ends. Now I will wait for Pol to chime in and expand my knowledge.

**jkarp** · 10-26-2009, 07:37 PM

You're absolutely right CodeRage. Elements are either on or off. 75% is the percentage of the time they're on.

HarkinBanks · 10-26-2009, 08:02 PM

JK, I just saw a pic of Sacc's sparge "arm" on his no sparge thread. Do you think there is a benefit to dispersing the recirculation water in the MLT like he does? As an old fly sparger, I have a small concern about dumping the recirculation water in the same spot over and over again. Just curious if you think this has any effect on the final product.

kjones · 10-27-2009, 12:56 AM

is this right?
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_ id=30

and also which one of the pids there are two?
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_ in_description=1&keyword=syl-2362+pid

**BrewBeemer** · 10-27-2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeRage

Sorry to go off topic here but I keep seeing 75%=3500W output and I dont get it.

I have an auber PID and when put into manual with a value of 75% it still is max wattage but the duty cycle is changed to 75%. I can hear my kettle with a 4500W element die down and then go to a roaring boil and continue to cycle. My At is set to 0 so it isn't because my minimum duration is set too high. It sure as heck isn't PWM because it is entirely way too slow.

Unless you mean 75% is the average of x many Watts over 100% cycle time, you are still blasting your wort with 100% power.

I believe there is an allusion that you can fine tune the amount of instantaneous heat being applied to the wort, which isn't true. At least not with this equipment.

Think of your element like a fuel injector in your vehicle unless your vehicles have carbs, 19 carb only 2 FI vehicles and bikes in my collection call it original show and old school. The injectors operatE by the same duty cycleS, % time open flowing gas vs time closed no with no gas flow. Same asCodeRage stated above just another example. The only way to get a reduced voltage would be like a dimmer that chops the the tops of the wave cycle down hence a lower voltage causing the lamp to dim down. In this case a 5KW or 10KW dimmer would be way out of the question in just cost alone for brewing. I'll keep a VFD out of this topic as this is for motors not a resistance load.

HarkinBanks · 10-27-2009, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjones

is this right?
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_ id=30

and also which one of the pids there are two?
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_ in_description=1&keyword=syl-2362+pid

Yes, the SSR is correct, also get the heat sink to disperse the heat.

The first PID is the one you want, not the 30V DC powered one.

**harley03** · 10-27-2009, 02:33 AM

Congratulations on your BYO article nice job! It is nice to see how many on this forum have got into a magazine or publication. It would be interesting to find out how many.