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Old 04-28-2009, 05:56 PM   #251
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I guess the question is: How fast is fast enough?

Do we really need to get the temp to under 140 in less than 5 minutes, or will 20 minutes give the same results? What about 10 minutes, versus 15? What is the magic number? I know it can vary by style, but surely there must be a consensus on this!

I just don't buy the theory that instantly chilling your wort to 65 is going to give your beer a universe-aligning taste.



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Old 04-28-2009, 06:22 PM   #252
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I think the choice is all about tradeoffs.

IC will chill the full volume faster, but may not produce as good of a cold break. You need to properly size the IC to get a good cold break and to drop the temp quickly. Recirculating around the IC (whirlpool) greatly increases the IC's ability to cool.

CFC are great because you are pretty much guaranteed a great cold break. However, they do not cool the entire volume and when used for whirlpooling back into the kettle are not as effective at cooling the full volume.

IC's are easier to maintain, but must be build big to reach the same surface area for cooling as a plate chiller.

As with almost every choice, there are tradeoffs. All will produce great results.

If you go with a CFC of plate, and find your hops aren't what you wish, just use a hopback.



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Old 04-28-2009, 11:51 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boerderij_Kabouter View Post
CFC are great because you are pretty much guaranteed a great cold break. However, they do not cool the entire volume and when used for whirlpooling back into the kettle are not as effective at cooling the full volume.

If you go with a CFC of plate, and find your hops aren't what you wish, just use a hopback.
I disagree with both of the above. My CFC is as just as effective as an IC chiller and possibly more so. A lot depends on the design of the CFC. I'm confident mine can meet or beat most any IC. To be effective with the whirlpool method, you do need a high recirculation flow rate. Not all CFC's can deliver that, with or without a pump. Mine does.

A hop back does have its place, but IMO will never be a satisfactory substitute for all of the late addition hops. You'll get mostly enhanced hop aroma, but little hop flavor using a hop back in my experience. I have found it more effective to add the late addtion hops in the normal manner then chill the wort rapidly.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:38 PM   #254
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I'd have to add a pump to recirculate back into the kettle. Not something I want to do at this point in time.

Still, there is the question of how much time is too long for the kettle to sit there before it's cooled. Any numbers?

I am going to add a spigot to my kettle and have thought about going larger, but then realized that my CFC is only 3/8 so that would probably not do me any good. I can chill my wort more than necessary, but I want to add the ability to chill MORE wort faster. I think the only way to do this is to increase the size of the chiller diameter.

Jamil talks about his "whirlpool chiller" which is a recirculating IC system. I get the idea behind it, but again, it seems like a lot more $$ to spend for a few minutes worth of improvement.

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Old 05-04-2009, 10:02 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homercidal View Post
I'd have to add a pump to recirculate back into the kettle. Not something I want to do at this point in time.

Still, there is the question of how much time is too long for the kettle to sit there before it's cooled. Any numbers?

I am going to add a spigot to my kettle and have thought about going larger, but then realized that my CFC is only 3/8 so that would probably not do me any good. I can chill my wort more than necessary, but I want to add the ability to chill MORE wort faster. I think the only way to do this is to increase the size of the chiller diameter.

Jamil talks about his "whirlpool chiller" which is a recirculating IC system. I get the idea behind it, but again, it seems like a lot more $$ to spend for a few minutes worth of improvement.
I've actually never seen anything solid in regards to time, and I suspect it's because there are so many variables (i.e. type of malt, how vigorous the boil was, boil length, etc). You will find a lot of "...as quickly as possible..." but that's about it. Because most of the information you see is so vague , we homebrewers have taken it upon ourselves to take this as far as possible, even though it may not truly be necessary in regards to DMS. However, faster chilling should hopefully mean less waste water, so I guess that's a worthwhile cause.

I know DMS can be a concern, but I mostly seen in from the Immersion Chiller camp as a way to bash CFCs . (I'm an IC guy btw.) If you detect DMS in your beers now, yes, you'll need to change something (chill faster, boil longer, etc). However, if you don't, there is nothing to worry about.

In regards to recirculating with an immersion chiller, all I can say is that this makes a HUGE improvement in knocking the temp down. Of course you can do this by stirring, but then you need to have the lid off, or rig up some type of stirrer through the lid. If you don't have a pump, then yes that's a big cost, but fortunately the pump can be used in other stages of the brewing process. If you have a pump, it's a few bucks for copper and fittings, but you'll see a huge improvement.

I don't know if I would go to much larger than 3/8". Sure you can technically push more wort through, but that also means there will be less wort in contact with the copper, so it may not be that much of an improvement.
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Old 05-07-2009, 11:30 PM   #256
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The 25' one I built cools a 5 gallon batch to 70 in one pass using very little cold water and is finished in less than ten minutes using gravity only from about 30" off the ground. I drain into a 5 gallon bucket, whirlpool it with a long spoon for a minute, and let it settle for another half hour, then drain to carboy and pitch starter.

I don't know how much of a difference it makes but I did solder a spiral of #12 copper wire around the tube for the entire length. The water comes out hot enough to kill a big patch of lawn, ask me how I know.

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Old 05-08-2009, 05:49 PM   #257
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MajorWoody, how do you start your siphon and what do you use to siphon from the kettle?

i just built one of these and i'm trying it out for the first time in a few days. i want to have some sort of 'plan' when i put it to use. i do not have a valve on my brew kettle, so i've ran different ways through my head. any tips would be appreciated.


eric

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Old 05-16-2009, 03:30 PM   #258
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Great post Bobby! This tutorial was extremely helpful in building this thing. Will have to test the final product very soon with my next brew session.

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Old 05-19-2009, 04:46 PM   #259
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I pick up the Craftsman 5/8 x 50ft rubber hose last Saturday for $14.99 . I plan on making two and sell one .I have a Shirron plate chiller and a pump haven't used either yet ,is the CFC better or about the same as the plate chiller ?

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Old 05-20-2009, 02:08 PM   #260
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I think a Shirron plate is about on par with the 25' CFC in efficiency. My monster plate chiller is better but then it's also about 4x the size of a Shirron.



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