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Old 04-05-2012, 01:56 AM   #1
milldoggy
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Default condensate pump for long draft lines

All,
Wanted to get your feedback on a pump for a long draft line. We recently bought a house and I want to place a kreezer in the basement and run a trunk line to the bar in the kitchen. I am debating on making my own trunk line or just buying the prefab ones from KegMan. If I make my own, it will be 3/16 beer lines for the beer and maybe the same for the glycol. If the run is over 15ft, I thought about bumping up to 3/8th so I can push the beer with 12-14 psi. Not to sure how long the run will be, 15 ft a min, maybe 35. Depends on where the kreezer goes. My plan is to place a bucket or corny full of Glycol or a mixture of RV antifreeze and water in the kreezer. I was researching pumps and I see a lot of people using submerisble pond pumps, anywhere from 130 GPH to 400 GPH(for 60' ft lines).

To my question, what about this pump.
http://hartell.thomasnet.com/item/condensate-pumps/kt-15-series-pumps/pn-1009?&bc=100|1001|1005|1006

It seems to have a good head height, at 15 ft 68 GPH. It seems well built and designed for these types of operations.


Any other thoughts?

Thanks

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Old 04-05-2012, 03:44 AM   #2
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I just got a brand new 110v little Giant condensate pump. Pm me if interested.

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Old 04-05-2012, 03:50 AM   #3
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Read here:

http://www.iancrockett.com/brewing/info/kegbalance.shtml

I HIGHLY doubt you'll need 3/8" line. 1/4" line should do just fine...5/16" at the VERY most.

Sorry I can't help with the pump.

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Old 04-05-2012, 04:16 AM   #4
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Thanks Yuri, I did more research after I posted and I agree, 3/8ths is overkill. Might go with 5/16ths.

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Old 04-05-2012, 08:31 PM   #5
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fwiw, i have a ~35 foot run, 8 feet of which is vertical, and it takes around 15psi to get a nice pour with 5/16" bevseal ultra lines and 2 feet of 1/4" choker lines right before the faucets.

theres no problem using 3/8" lines for glycol, but its probably too large for beer. i found that most estimates of restriction-psi/foot are high. could be due in part to the bevseal lines being much smoother inside finish.

if you are 'only' needing 15 foot lines, 1/4" will probably work better than 5/16"

for my glycol pump, im using a SurFlow diaphragm pump (from amazon.com; the cheapest 120v model). it supports 3 temperature zones though, so i needed something with lots of head pressure.

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Old 04-05-2012, 08:33 PM   #6
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Where did you get the bev seal 5/16 line? I was looking for the bev seal 235 barrier stuff and could not find it.

Are you using 5/16 for your glycol also?

is the diaphram pump loud?

Thanks for info, it really helps.

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Old 04-05-2012, 10:29 PM   #7
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These are the only 120 volt diaphragm pump I can find, is this what you have?

http://www.amazon.com/Shurflo-8005-733-155-Diaphragm-Pump/dp/B00571IFN6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1333664493&sr=8-5

http://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-Industrial-Pump-Model-2088-594-154/dp/B0001FAA5Y/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1333664493&sr=8-13

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Old 04-05-2012, 10:37 PM   #8
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I'd recommend pushing with a mix of CO2 & Nitrogen and eliminate pumps all together. You can increase PSI to push the beer without overcarbonating. You can get preblended gas or blend it onsite.

I have a 100' run and I push with gas only.

Here's a restriction chart you may find useful

http://www.draughtquality.org/w/page/18182184/Components%20of%20Balance

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Old 04-05-2012, 11:41 PM   #9
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rvklein,
Excellent link. thanks. Things are making more sense.


Beer Conditions:
– Beer temperature: 38°F
– Beer carbonation: 2.8 volumes of CO2 per volume of beer
– Dispense gas: 100% CO2
– Gas pressure needed to maintain carbonation = 14.5 psig
Static Pressure:
– Vertical lift = 13 ft. (Tap 13 ft. above the center of the keg)
– Static resistance from gravity = 13 ft. x 0.5 pounds/foot = 6.5 pounds
Balance

– Applied pressure of 14.5 psi must be balanced by total system resistance

– Since static resistance equals 6.5 psi, a total of 5.5 pounds of system resistance will be needed: Restriction = 14.5 – 6.5 = 5.5 pounds

- 30 ft of 3/8 barrier at .06 = 1.6, will need some choker line, like 1.5 ft of vinyl line
- 30 ft of 5/16 at .1 = 3, 1 ft of vinyl choker needed
- 60 ft of 5/16 at .1 = 6, no choker needed, might go this route and I can cut short to adjust
- 15 ft of 1/4 at .4 = 6, I really want the kreezer father

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Old 04-06-2012, 06:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvklein View Post
I'd recommend pushing with a mix of CO2 & Nitrogen and eliminate pumps all together.
the pump is for the glycol not beer

Quote:
These are the only 120 volt diaphragm pump I can find, is this what you have?
yes, thats the one. it is a little loud, though i have mine in the basement suspended with rope so the vibrations dont travel anywhere. i do use 5/16" line for the glycol as well, however connecting the pump to a single 5/16" line is going to choke the pump and cause it to rapidly cycle on/off. i have the pump going into a manifold of solenoids, and the computer that controls it opens atleast two solenoids at once to get enough flow for the pump. i have one solenoid for each cooling zone, plus one for bypass (just circulates the coolant in the resevoir). if two zones are open at once, the bypass is closed. if only one zone needs to be opened, the bypass opens as well.
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