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Old 03-06-2008, 06:48 PM   #1
pluto
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Default Brutus Ten gas system

I have the following question regarding the pilot light system for the Brutus Ten.
If one supposes that BOTH the HLT main gas is on and the Mash Tun gas is on, of course both pilots would be on. The main gas to each tank would be getting swtiched on and off according to temperature of the liquid. Now let's say the HLT main gas swithes off, and then a wind blowing into the garage (or outside) blows OUT the pilot light for this HLT. The next time the HLT main gas is ordered to turn on by the temperature controller, the main gas rings would NOT light. So there would be a lot of main gas coming out of the HLT main gas, which would not get ignited. UNTIL .... sufficient gas reaches across to the mash tun pilot or main gas flame. Could there not then be a great explosion? BOOM!
What does it mean "Solenoid Pilot Operated Valve" mean, on the ASCO web site for the 8210 gas valve. Where do ASCO claim that this valve can handle LP Propane gas?

Thanks for any help/guidance.

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Old 03-06-2008, 07:08 PM   #2
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Im working on this situation as well: i dont have a valve rated for lp, some say thats not so safe, but oh well im stupid (theres a thread about them check it out).
Some one else out there on the internet, hooked their asco up to two different controllers: one thermocouple was put over the pilot the light set to a certain temperature and if the pilot light was off it would shut off the valve , if that makes sense.

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Old 03-06-2008, 07:58 PM   #3
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don't most auto gas valves have a temp sensor for the pilot so if it goes out the main valve stays shut??

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Old 03-06-2008, 08:15 PM   #4
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All the ones on modern water heaters and furnaces do. That's why you have to hold the button in for a minute after lighting the pilot. You're basically shorting out the pilot safety thermocouple until it has a chance to heat up.

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Old 03-07-2008, 07:08 PM   #5
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Default Pilot Safety Valve

Here is the answer to the original question as i understand it...
And no i am not a gas expert. Fellow board member 'korndog' has helped me greatly in understanding how this safety precaution can be implemented.

You are correct in that if a wind blows out Pilot A, and Pilot and Burner B is still running, the the gas from Burner A could indeed get ignited by Burner B and cause a large boom...

However, if you employ Pilot safety valves with thermocouples to detect the ABSENCE of said pilot, then the main gas flow to that burner would be turned off.
So if the wind did blow out Pilot A, the thermocouple sensor would cool off because the pilot would not be heating it, and the thermocouple would then loose its current to open the valve, resulting in gas being turned off to that burner and no extra gas flowing causing big boom.

I ordered these pilot safety valves that do just as i described above. This guy on eBay took $12.50 per as a best offer. You will also need the pilot burner and the thermocouple for each valve. They each run < $10. This ends up being less than a $35 solution per burner for the added safety.

Hope that helps.

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Old 03-08-2008, 03:00 AM   #6
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Default Brtus Ten Gas System

I want to thank eveyone for their replies and help. I realise you are all right in your replies. However, the system as shown on BYO magazine dated November 2007 does not indicate any kind of protection you have have all discussed.
I will however take your suggestions, since you do all agree that the BYO magazine system does in fact seem dangerous. I will either obtain a pilot light system valve to disconnect the main supply, should it go out, or perhaps get a full blown gas valve as used on a hot water tank in a home. The only question I have then about using such a valve, is how to connect it to an accurate temperature controller, digital, which is capable of controlling temperature to within one degree, like a RANCO controller.

Thanks again to you all.

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Old 03-08-2008, 03:16 AM   #7
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Use the ranco like the contacts in a thermostat to control ignition module, you would need a 24VAC - 40 VA transformer to power 1 module at a time.

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Old 03-08-2008, 04:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluto
I will either obtain a pilot light system valve to disconnect the main supply, should it go out, or perhaps get a full blown gas valve as used on a hot water tank in a home. The only question I have then about using such a valve, is how to connect it to an accurate temperature controller, digital, which is capable of controlling temperature to within one degree, like a RANCO controller.

Thanks again to you all.
Correct me if i am wrong someone...but i believe you are mixing two mutually exclusive operations in the gas line.

1. The LOVE or Ranco temp controllers are switches that will open/close the main gas valve supplying the burner that will in turn get lit by the standing pilot.

2. The standing pilot safety valve will in line BEFORE the main gas valve and have two external leads. One will be your pilot burner (flame) and the other a thermocouple to sense this flame. This valve is essentially always open and supplying gas to the pilot. If the pilot should go out the thermocouple will sense this and close the valve stopping gas to the entire unit.

The LOVE or Ranco controller you use to set temp and have the burners on or off based on temp are independent of the pilot safety valve and have no effect on that part of the equation.

Essentially what you are doing is using the Brutus 10 design as is, and adding a second valve for the pilot that will replace the 'yellow flex hose' in Lonnie's design. It just adds one more degree of safety.

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Old 03-08-2008, 02:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBugeater
Correct me if i am wrong someone...but i believe you are mixing two mutually exclusive operations in the gas line.

1. The LOVE or Ranco temp controllers are switches that will open/close the main gas valve supplying the burner that will in turn get lit by the standing pilot.

2. The standing pilot safety valve will in line BEFORE the main gas valve and have two external leads. One will be your pilot burner (flame) and the other a thermocouple to sense this flame. This valve is essentially always open and supplying gas to the pilot. If the pilot should go out the thermocouple will sense this and close the valve stopping gas to the entire unit.

The LOVE or Ranco controller you use to set temp and have the burners on or off based on temp are independent of the pilot safety valve and have no effect on that part of the equation.

Essentially what you are doing is using the Brutus 10 design as is, and adding a second valve for the pilot that will replace the 'yellow flex hose' in Lonnie's design. It just adds one more degree of safety.

MNBugeater
That's right. There ARE combination valves that control both processes. You can get them for standing pilot or spark ignition. they have some appeal, I must admit.
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