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Old 11-18-2012, 02:39 PM   #21
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So you're the reason that metal prices have been going up
LOL, guilty as charged.

I hope to make up for that by driving beer prices down in the near future.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:56 PM   #22
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I spent a few hours measuring and figuring and came up with this.



The sink needs a cut out 19x19". That width works well because the 10.5 gallon pots are 18.75" diameter and I don't want the pots sitting directly on the frame. The pots will sit on a grate above the frame.

The drawing shows 2 different diameters of kettles. The smaller is a Bayou Classic 1044, which is 11 gallons. I have 3 of them. The larger size is a Bayou Classic 1082, which is 20.5 gallons. I'll be getting 2 of them.

The left most kettle is the mash tun. The 2 others are boil kettles.

The 3 pumps will sit below the lower level, as will all the electronics, plumbing and controls. The entire space beneath the burners will be for storage. The 1044s are 17 1/4 inches tall and the 1082s are 17" tall, so both should fit beneath the burners.

This design uses all of the 50 feet of tubing I purchased. I bought it as 5 x 10 foot pieces.

Piece 1 will be cut 82, 19, 15 with 4 inches of left over
Piece 2 will be cut 82, 19, 15 with 4 inches of left over
Piece 3 will be cut 82, 27 with 11 inches of left over
Piece 4 will be cut 82, 27 with 11 inches of left over
Piece 5 will be cut 27, 27, 19, 20, 20 with 7 inches of left over

I might juggle these around a bit before I start cutting.

I'll use the 2 11 inch pieces to create a "firewall" between the edge of the the sink and the side of the mash tun.

The hot water heater mounts behind the sink. Its not a water proof unit, so I'll probably put a plexiglass splash shield in front of it.

The stand will have a stance of 23 inches, but an overall width of about 26 inches. The bottom long members will be set back inside the legs so that things that hang out like pump heads will not add to the overall width of the stand more than necessary. I'm hoping it will fit though any doorway I encounter.

The stand is nearly 7 feet long. It would be 5 feet long without the sink. I considered building it without the sink but I feel that the addition of the sink will make things a lot more convenient on brewing day.

My last brew stand had a 16x 24 fold out wooden shelf. I loved it and used it for many things, but it was way too small. This stand will have a 22 x 42" SS fold out shelf, making the entire unit over 10.5 feet long when extended. There is also going to be a 6" SS tray in front of the kettles to set spoons, tools, hoses, etc on. It found these two items at the local scrap yard in excellent condition.

I'm looking for input on this design. If you see anything that could be improved, I would like to hear it. I'm not promising that I'll incorporate everything people tell me, but I'll certainly consider it.

Thanks in advance.

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Old 11-18-2012, 09:13 PM   #23
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BYO (November 2012) has an excellent article on home brewery design on page 44.

In that article the author, John Blichman himself, talks about keeping the work path between the sink, mashtun and boil kettle small, no more than 23 feet for a round trip. His cross aisle setup is 15 feet. My setup is 10 feet round trip from the sink to the far boil kettle, but my sink is smaller than his and my "sideboard" is on the other side of the sink, not across the aisle, so its probably a toss up.

I'd love to have a cross aisle setup like his, but I can't justify having to pull out 2 brewing carts. I know that I *hated* brewing without a sink with my old stand and I know that I'll like the side leaf much better on my new stand, so I'm hoping this will work out to be a convenient setup.

I haven't figured out where I am going to put the brewstand computer yet. It probably won't be a good thing to have it sitting on the leaf next to the sink. That is asking for trouble. Beyond that I haven't figured anything out.

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Old 11-18-2012, 09:50 PM   #24
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I see now. As far as how the endmill will handle stainless, is it coated and do you plan on using coolant? It's probably going to look like hell if it's 316 or 304, since they're both highly ductile with a high nickel and chrome content, making for nasty burrs and high heat at the shear point. You real need to interpolate and not just plunge cut if you want a nice edge.
Four fluter will likely break if plunge cutting. Not good for center cutting regardless of face angle. I've broken my fair share of magic end mills. Hell, just go big and get an indexable mill with ceramic inserts. Shrink fit tool system. Might set you back more than the stand itself.

In the process of designing intermediate stands for 10gal system. Subscribed.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:45 PM   #25
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Any comments on the stand design ? I want to go cut tubing and start welding. I'm afraid to do so lest someone point out some obvious flaw in what I am about to do.

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Old 11-19-2012, 02:15 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddad

Four fluter will likely break if plunge cutting. Not good for center cutting regardless of face angle. I've broken my fair share of magic end mills. Hell, just go big and get an indexable mill with ceramic inserts. Shrink fit tool system. Might set you back more than the stand itself.

In the process of designing intermediate stands for 10gal system. Subscribed.
Yes, true. If the 4 fluter is making the hole to size, there definitely needs to be a drill first to pilot the hole. 4 flute endmills are not designed for center cutting.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:07 AM   #27
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I went shopping today and got a kitchen faucet ($80), a laundry sink faucet ($42) a sink drain ($13) and a bunch of fittings. Total, $140. I got the sink at a metal recycler for $1/pound.



I looked forever to find some good used faucets, to no avail. In order to get the brewstand going, I was forced to buy new items.

Now that I had a faucet for my sink, I could see how the water heater was going to fit into the picture and how the faucet plumbing was going to work with the stand.



With that figured out I was able to complete the stand design, see the drawing a few posts back.

It was finally time to start cutting. A couple weeks back I purchased an abrasive cutoff blade that would fit my compound mitre saw. Its rated at 5200 RPM and has a 1" diameter hole. Max no load RPM on my saw is 4300 RPM, IIRC. The blade was $12.

Here is how I used it.



Note the face shield. What you don't see is a paint mask that I used to keep abrasive dust out of my lungs and welding gloves, just because.

It took about 20 seconds to make a cut. I would apply force for a couple seconds, back off for a few seconds, rinse and repeat until the cut was through. It cuts WAY harder than wood, but if you leave the motor cool by doing the above sequence, it won't even get warm.

Make sure there is no sawdust on the saw that sparks could ignite.

This is what 50 feet of tubing looks like when cut for my brewstand.



The top 4 pieces are the long frame lengths. They turned out to be 81 3/4" after the saw kerfs were taken out of them. I took the kerfs from them because their length is non critical.

The 4 pieces on the right are the 27" legs.

The 3 pieces to the left of them are the 19" cross members for the top level frame.

The 2 pieces below them are the 15" cross members for the bottom shelf.

The 3 pieces on the extreme left are "scrap". I'm sure I'll put them to good use.

The single piece at the bottom is yet to be cut into the 2 uprights to go between the top and bottom levels. I haven't cut them because I haven't decided how much ground clearance I want under the bottom shelf.

The cutting went very well, with no issues. I was going to buy a metal chop saw just for this project. Now I am glad I didn't.

It feels great to finally start actually working on the stand.

Next up is to drill a bunch of holes in these pieces before I weld them together.

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Old 11-19-2012, 04:05 PM   #28
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Updated drawings now include the shelf, drip tray and vessels.





The shelf sits over the burners in storage mode, acting as a counter top. It should be a nice work space for kegging, being there is hot water, a sink, a spray nozzle and pumps right there.

I'm hoping that if I remove a few fittings, all 5 vessels (3x11 gallons, 2x 20.5 gallons) will fit on the bottom shelf, nested.

The drip tray comes off for storage.

The hot water heater needs the exhaust stack to create a draft through its burner. But the stack slips right off for storage.

I'm thinking of adding a collapsing "high bar" to the right side of the stand to hang hoses and stirring implements from. I hate setting hoses and stirring spoons sitting flat on a surface. It takes up a lot of room and it isn't sanitary. Maybe I'm just anal.

It also needs a towel bar or two as they are another thing that shouldn't sit on a flat surface.

Comments/feedback/ideas ? Would you want to brew with this thing ?

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Old 11-19-2012, 04:59 PM   #29
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Regarding your control panel. Have you considered hanging it from the ceiling? If you have the space, perhaps have it stow up and away?

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Old 11-19-2012, 05:05 PM   #30
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Regarding your control panel. Have you considered hanging it from the ceiling? If you have the space, perhaps have it stow up and away?
I want to be able to brew anywhere with this thing that I can hook up to power, natgas and water. That would be in my garage, on my deck, on the pad in front of the garage, in my friend's garage, at a club brewing day, etc. Its completely mobile if we have the muscle to lift it into the back of a truck.

Mounting the controller interface from the ceiling of my garage would defeat that. But I could easily hang it from the brewstand itself. Where should I put it relative to the brewstand ?

Seems to me it should be somewhere close to the mash tun, yet it shouldn't interfere with the path from the sink and the shelf to the mash tun and boil kettles and it needs to be away from heat and spray and it can't interfere with access to the mash tun and...
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