Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > DIY Projects > Best way to run electrical

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-15-2010, 05:42 PM   #1
Douglefish
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 239
Likes Given: 1

Default Best way to run electrical

I just moved into a new home and am moving my electric brew stand with me. I live in CO and want to brew outside so I am going to have new breaker(s) put into my panel (200 Amp Service) and all weather plugs put in. I had an electrician come over and is quoting me a price. I just want to make sure I'm going the right route.

My System:
2 5500W Electric elements (HLT and BK)
2 Pumps (1 LG and one March)

I was thinking I wanted him to put in a spa panel and a 60 amp plug for the 2 elements. Then I would run a separate 110 circuit for the pumps. I would distribute the 220 with a distribution block like the pol.

He pushed me towards 2 30 Amp GFCI breakers with separate plugs.

I am thinking the electricians route is going to cost me a lot more money as 30 amp gfci breakers are about as much as the spa panel. Does 2 separate breakers offer any more protection? The gfci will trip if one of the elements get's interrupted right?

Any advice would be very much appreciated, I just don't want to pay for something I don't need.

Thanks in advance!!!

__________________
Douglefish is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 06:18 PM   #2
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

I'd ask for the 60A circuit, if for no reason other than the fact that building a power cord to run from the outlet to your control panel is pretty pricey. It's probably cheaper to build one cable that can handle 60A rather than two cables that can handle 30A.

Plus, you'll need to distribute two separate circuits instead of one inside the control panel. Cost went up there, too.

Two separate breakers does not offer you any more protection. It just offers you some separation. Meaning, if one circuit sees a ground fault, that breaker will trip, but the other stays running. Not sure if that would actually be handy. If I ever trip a breaker I want EVERYTHING to shut down because I will absolutely not proceed with anything until I have figured out and fixed whatever issue caused the breaker to trip.

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 06:22 PM   #3
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Oh... and your electrician will probably charge you more to install two circuits than he would to install one. more parts, more labor, more money for him.

When I had an electrician put 240V in my garage, I didn't tell him what I was doing with it up front. I just told him what I wanted done.

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 06:38 PM   #4
Douglefish
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 239
Likes Given: 1

Default

Thanks for the quick response!

So do they make plugs that are rated for 60 amps, or do you run multiple 30 amp plugs from the spa panel? By the way, I already have a distribution block so that isn't a concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
I'd ask for the 60A circuit, if for no reason other than the fact that building a power cord to run from the outlet to your control panel is pretty pricey. It's probably cheaper to build one cable that can handle 60A rather than two cables that can handle 30A.

Plus, you'll need to distribute two separate circuits instead of one inside the control panel. Cost went up there, too.

Two separate breakers does not offer you any more protection. It just offers you some separation. Meaning, if one circuit sees a ground fault, that breaker will trip, but the other stays running. Not sure if that would actually be handy. If I ever trip a breaker I want EVERYTHING to shut down because I will absolutely not proceed with anything until I have figured out and fixed whatever issue caused the breaker to trip.
__________________
Douglefish is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 06:52 PM   #5
IrregularPulse
Hobby Collector
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IrregularPulse's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 42,434
Liked 2759 Times on 2710 Posts
Likes Given: 115

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
When I had an electrician put 240V in my garage, I didn't tell him what I was doing with it up front. I just told him what I wanted done.
ditto.........
__________________
Tap Room Hobo

I should have stuck to four fingers in Vegas. :o - marubozo
IrregularPulse is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 06:52 PM   #6
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarondrich View Post
Thanks for the quick response!

So do they make plugs that are rated for 60 amps, or do you run multiple 30 amp plugs from the spa panel? By the way, I already have a distribution block so that isn't a concern.
Hmmmm... I don't know. 50A plugs and receptacles are easy to come by, but I have not seen 60A (but then again, I wasn't looking for them either.)

You can't run multiple 30A plugs from the spa panel. The plug/receptacle has to be rated for the amps that can come through the breaker they are attached to for safety (and building code) reasons.

Shop around and see what you find.

My personal opinion is that you'll save yourself some hassle (and maybe money) by dropping the HLT element down in wattage so that your whole system fits into a 50A envelope. 5500W is a lot of power for just heating water to temps under 180*F, isn't it?

I have 5500W in my BK, and at full blast it will make the whole brew stand jiggle from the sloshing and fairly violent violent boil of 7gallons of wort.
__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 07:05 PM   #7
gunner65
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 844
Liked 15 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I think 50A is more standard for spa panels. Your Stove outlet is 50A as well. I did a 50A gfi breaker to a 50A wall plug then 4 wire SO to the control panel 30A outlet from control panel to element everything is fused accordingly and sufficiently grounded. Same thing as most people do around this forum.

__________________

Single Vessel BIAB is all I need....Until we figure out the no vessel technique.

gunner65 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 07:17 PM   #8
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

60A is becoming more and more popular for SPAs. I've even saw some 70A spa panels when I was shopping for parts for my rig.

The 11kW (plus the pumps) that the OP wants to use might force him to use multiple breakers and cords feeding his panel if he can't find 60A plugs and receptacles. I've just been looking and cannot find them. Cord, yes. Plugs and receptacles, no.


Dropping down to 9kW (5500 in BK, 3500 in HLT) gets you back to a range where a single 50A circuit will work (and 50A spa panels are available).

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 07:22 PM   #9
Ohio-Ed
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Ohio-Ed's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,072
Liked 19 Times on 18 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarondrich View Post
Thanks for the quick response!

So do they make plugs that are rated for 60 amps, or do you run multiple 30 amp plugs from the spa panel? By the way, I already have a distribution block so that isn't a concern.
Price and lack of availability goes up dramatically when you go above 50amps (cord, plugs, receptacles).
Do you NEED to run the BK & HLT at the same time?
Do you NEED a 5500watt element in the HLT (would 4500 get'er done)?

I started with the plan of a 60amp system and found a way to make it work on 50...
__________________
Ohio-Ed is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 07:23 PM   #10
BadgerBrewer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 345
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
When I had an electrician put 240V in my garage, I didn't tell him what I was doing with it up front. I just told him what I wanted done.
Okay...I said I wasn't really interested in putting 240V in my garage, but just so I can justify it, what does it typically cost to have an electrician put it in? Just ballpark is okay.
__________________

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." - Ronald Reagan

BadgerBrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
electrical help needed rod DIY Projects 15 02-17-2010 07:06 PM
Electrical Engineers oldschool DIY Projects 10 01-27-2010 01:43 AM
Electrical Safety. lazybean DIY Projects 73 10-28-2009 09:45 PM
240 Electrical Question juvinious DIY Projects 17 04-11-2009 06:35 PM
Electrical help for last phase Brewpastor DIY Projects 23 04-04-2007 02:57 PM