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Old 01-05-2011, 05:56 AM   #1
NiteOwlBrewing
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Default Basement Long Draw Draft Build

Ok, getting a house that has a basement bar stubbed in. Drain, water (behind drywall) and electricity. Thing is, its TINY er tiny. Here are real estate photos as we don't even close until 2/18 and, oh yeah, wife's shootin' another kid out 2/1...


My plan is to have a keezer in the storage room door seen to the left of the bar when facing it. Planning a trunk line over the ceiling and down the wall to 4 taps with a diy chiller/pump. I plan on an insulated box inside the wall with the shanks sticking through possibly glycol coiled (thanks Kal) if necessary. Planning for ss backsplash with drip tray/glass rinser. Under the counter will be a fridge and our cheezy 6 bottle thermo-e cooled wine chiller on a shelf to aid in fridge venting. A sink will reside somewhere over the PVC you can see stubbed in. We have a giant mirror we (I) removed from over our mantle to mount the plasma in our current house at our disposal, but I don't know if there will be room. I also plan to cut/retack the carpet and tile in front of the bar. These are loose guidelines as I've really only seen the place one time in person.

Here are my thoughts/questions (keeping in mind its nearing 2am, I'm enjoying my homebrews and still have to work in the am):
-What happens to any condensation inside an insulated box with glycol cooling? I plan on sealing it, but should I drain it as I will my glass rinser/drip tray?
-My plan is to have the shank run through a stainless face on the outside, then drywall (sealed from outside issues), then a plywood backer of sorts for stability, then the nut, then insulation, then the interior of the box with a potential cooling coil around it. Any issues with the drywall being exposed to potential condensation dripping from the shank as it passes through?
-Gawd its almost more difficult to avoid the phallic references here than working on a car.
-I suppose I have the option of having a stainless box made that serves the purpose I was trying to use the wall cavity for, would that be a best path of pursuit?
-Should I just can the whole thing and stick with my Bev Air/True 2 tower in the garage with 8 keg possibilities? Seems the cost will nearly even out since I've got 5 tower taps now...

Please chime in with any thoughts. I've got a local guy I get all my kegging parts from and I just sent away for a quote tonight. I've also already priced CHI and MM.

Seriously, any advice appreciated and I hope I can keep up the maintenance of this thread.

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Old 01-05-2011, 05:58 AM   #2
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Obviously, I'm no web junkie. If someone can help me get these pics to work they'll be my first posted in a forum...

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Old 01-05-2011, 06:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by NiteOwlBrewing View Post
Obviously, I'm no web junkie. If someone can help me get these pics to work they'll be my first posted in a forum...
All you needed was a ".jpg" at the end

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Old 01-05-2011, 02:48 PM   #4
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All you needed was a ".jpg" at the end

Superb; thanks, they seem to be working now...
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:54 PM   #5
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First of all, congrats on the new addition to the family!

Second of all, I can't see the pictures on my end.

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Old 01-05-2011, 06:12 PM   #6
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I'm sure the bev air cooler is loud, so having the built in could be a much quieter solution, and better looking, depending on your skills. The cooler you can take with you, while the built in will be most likely a problem when/if you sell the house. Can the bev air even get down in to the basement?

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Old 01-06-2011, 01:04 AM   #7
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I'm sure the bev air cooler is loud, so having the built in could be a much quieter solution, and better looking, depending on your skills. The cooler you can take with you, while the built in will be most likely a problem when/if you sell the house. Can the bev air even get down in to the basement?
I was meaning can the whole long draw system and just stick a Bev Air or True cooler in the garage with towers. It sounds in the thread as though I have it; meant to have "planned buy" or something of the like in that sentence. Then the bar would be for bottled beer, wine and liquor.

Now that I'm hearing myself think, I could likely run the long draw from a big fun cooler in the garage with not much more length. I could have taps in the garage and taps in the basement with the only difference having to be a hole drilled in the garage concrete wall and a few feet of trunk line.

Another option I might have is use a small fridge behind the wall of the bar for a couple kegs and have two taps downstairs. I'm limited to something small as it is a little area that leads to the bedroom down there, so no keezer. I might be able to get away with a little fridge and I could then do a cold air blower through the wall since it would only be 2-3 feet. Then, just a two tap tower with glass rinser drip tray. That would be much cheaper and less invasive also.
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:58 AM   #8
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Realize I have no idea of your DIY/Remodeling/Construction experience so i am assuming you have next to none, If you do all the better.

My take on the situation, if you are tearing into walls go as big as possible(as many as you can fit kegs in your cooler). The hardest part to me sounds like patching drywall (if not done right it is easy to tell). As far as condensation around your draft lines, i would just run the lines inside something like a pvc pipe (3 in perhaps, with sweep bends) or electrical conduit. Running your lines inside a conduit of some sort will make it much easier to pull a new line if you have too (you never know what may happen), and all your condensation is isolated in a plastic pipe(cant harm anything) if you seal it up well it wont really have much condensation (water vapor has to come from someplace).

one thing to keep in mind when putting fridges in the garage is, some models don't handle cold weather well. I had a freezer in a unheated entry-way (insulated but not heated) and somehow the freezer was actually warmer than ambient (and it actually started to heat things in the freezer, the freezer was at like 45 when the room was at about 30) I have no idea how cold things get where you are, but OH is not much further south than I am.
If you do go the garage route, a good bit and a OK hammer drill (corded-cordless drills usually don't have the power needed) will go through block walls pretty easy just don't go through the joint or the center of a block (they are hollow with a rib in the center). If you have a wall that is not block make sure you are not trying to drill through reinforcing steel (this is problematic, i know from experience).

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Old 01-06-2011, 02:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by LordUlrich View Post
Realize I have no idea of your DIY/Remodeling/Construction experience so i am assuming you have next to none, If you do all the better.

My take on the situation, if you are tearing into walls go as big as possible(as many as you can fit kegs in your cooler). The hardest part to me sounds like patching drywall (if not done right it is easy to tell). As far as condensation around your draft lines, i would just run the lines inside something like a pvc pipe (3 in perhaps, with sweep bends) or electrical conduit. Running your lines inside a conduit of some sort will make it much easier to pull a new line if you have too (you never know what may happen), and all your condensation is isolated in a plastic pipe(cant harm anything) if you seal it up well it wont really have much condensation (water vapor has to come from someplace).

one thing to keep in mind when putting fridges in the garage is, some models don't handle cold weather well. I had a freezer in a unheated entry-way (insulated but not heated) and somehow the freezer was actually warmer than ambient (and it actually started to heat things in the freezer, the freezer was at like 45 when the room was at about 30) I have no idea how cold things get where you are, but OH is not much further south than I am.
If you do go the garage route, a good bit and a OK hammer drill (corded-cordless drills usually don't have the power needed) will go through block walls pretty easy just don't go through the joint or the center of a block (they are hollow with a rib in the center). If you have a wall that is not block make sure you are not trying to drill through reinforcing steel (this is problematic, i know from experience).
My experience is even more limited than my knowledge. However, I did gut my 80+ year old kitchen, plumb it and the bathroom upstairs, rewired it all for 20 amp 120 outlets, lifted up a portion of the floor and a door, knocked out a wall/installed LVL beams, insulated it and refinished everything.

My concern here is the box I'm currently planning to hide in the wall cavity. I'm assuming condensation will get in. I'm planning on using trunk line for the run. The only real tearing into drywall is the wall behind, which I'll only tear into for access. The wall behind my proposed SS backsplash really doesn't matter and I will likely replace with insulation.

I've poured a bit of concrete as I used to install wind turbines and had to pour their foundations. I've subsequently had to drill back through them and was planning on locating rebar prior to any attempt at such. Duly noted on the capacity to cool in the summer (in this case). The garage is attached to the house, so I doubt the swings will be as massive as my detached is currently and my fermentation chamber and kegerators keep up.

Thanks, and keep any comments coming. I'm all over the place on this right now. We close in 6 weeks, so nothing will really happen til then. In the beginning I was thinking I'd install the draft system first with just taps out of the wall as motivation to complete the rest, but maybe I'll install the bar and THEN the taps. I'd just hate to have to walk up the steps to the garage everytime I need a beer to complete the bar set-up!
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