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Old 08-02-2010, 08:53 AM   #1
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Default Another Control Panel wiring question

ok, so here is my wiring schematic. please let me know if you see any glaring errors or possible fixes. I would like to NOT die in the process of building this thing

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Old 08-02-2010, 09:03 AM   #2
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i guess i should have mentioned some more details. The input will be a 20a 120V line on a designated breaker. I dont have access to anything else right now. I wont be running the 2 heaters at the same time, so my max draw will theoretically be 16a @ 120 V (the 2000W element which will be in my kettle). for now 2000W will be enough as i dont plan on doing more than 5 gal batches...yet

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Old 08-02-2010, 01:04 PM   #3
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ok, so here is my wiring schematic. please let me know if you see any glaring errors or possible fixes. I would like to NOT die in the process of building this thing

It looks pretty good, with a few suggestions...

- Lose the PID on the pump - It won't do you any good. A plain old switch will work just fine, and you can't "throttle" a pump electrically - you throttle a pump with a valve on the output port.
- Get a double-pole switch on your pain power input - Switching both the hot and the neutral isn't necessary, but it is a good idea.
- I would replace the switches between the hot and the 2 element SSRs. Get a single-pole, 3-throw switch and wire it "On-Off-On" IOW "HLT-Off-BK" so you can't possibly fire both elements at the same time.

Remember, a PID regulates the power of the elements by adjusting the power over time. In other words, if the cycle time is 2 seconds and the PID is going at 50%, your element is at 100% for 1 second, and 0% for one second.
If both PIDs are set for 50%, and both fire at the same time, that's 100% of both elements - And a popped breaker
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Old 08-02-2010, 01:16 PM   #4
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haha, wow, in my tiredness i did make the 3rd PID go to the pump, wow.......

alright, ok so to clarify, PID #1 will control the HLT, PID #2 will act as a temp sensor for the mashtun (not shown in diagram, i will update sometime today) and PID #3 will control the kettle.

seriously though, thanks for pointing out my dumb mistake, funny part is i showed thed diagram to one of my electricians here at work tonight to double check it and the he didnt catch my mistake either, lol

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Old 08-02-2010, 03:46 PM   #5
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haha, wow, in my tiredness i did make the 3rd PID go to the pump, wow.......

alright, ok so to clarify, PID #1 will control the HLT, PID #2 will act as a temp sensor for the mashtun (not shown in diagram, i will update sometime today) and PID #3 will control the kettle.

seriously though, thanks for pointing out my dumb mistake, funny part is i showed thed diagram to one of my electricians here at work tonight to double check it and the he didnt catch my mistake either, lol
You could look into a PWM circuit for the BK - And save the $$ you would spend on the PID. You can get a PWM circuit for something like $9.00 - Less if you build one yourself with a 555 timer IC.
There is no reason to have a temperature sensor on your BK - It's going to get to 212 and start boiling. At that point you'll have to switch the PID to manual to keep your boil under control. A PWM is just easier, since you can't automate the BK (Unless your BK is so ginormous that boilover isn't a concern )
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:02 PM   #6
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alright so between the 2 topics i have going i've decided to change my power source from 20a to 30a (dryer outlet) and rework the wiring drawing i had. Here is the new one

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Old 08-10-2010, 07:37 PM   #7
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the single most important thing you are missing is a GFCI somewhere in the system. It should be a GFCI breaker that you use so it covers the entire system at one point.

...you missed the PID on the kettle...or the PWM circuit...or whatever control device to the two SSR's on the kettle.

What size elements are you going to run now if you have 240V available?

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Old 08-10-2010, 07:43 PM   #8
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alright so between the 2 topics i have going i've decided to change my power source from 20a to 30a (dryer outlet) and rework the wiring drawing i had. Here is the new one
Looking good.
A few things,
There is no neutral at your heating elements. The only place you'll use the neutral is at the pump (Or any other 110v stuff) The elements only need both "Hot" wires, and ground.
(Check your manual, of course) But you can power the PIDs with 110v or 220v. I don't see the neutral going to your PIDs so I'm assuming you just forgot to draw it in. So you can either wire them to the two Hot's, or carry the neutral to each one for 110v.

As a matter of fact, if you get a 220v pump, you won't need the neutral at all, and can use a 3-wire plug, and cheaper 3-wire cable.

It's still my preference to switch both the hot and the neutral on 110v circuits, and both hots on 220v circuits. But that's up to you.

Looks like you're on the right track though!
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:44 PM   #9
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since i already have a 2000W element i think i will use it for the HLT and i will get a 3500W or maybe 4000W for the kettle. For the kettle, someone on another thread i had going made a very good point in stating, that "you need your kettle to boil, so there is no real need for a PID to control it", if i do a 3500W element it should be more than enough to keep a 5gal batch boiling (without scortching) and it will be as simple as let it run at 100%.

Or is my electrical knowledge incorrect in thinking i can use 2 SSR's for the kettle without a PID? And can you explain to me what a PWM circuit is? i've read about it online but i dont see how i would incorporate this into my panel

Thanks!

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Old 08-10-2010, 07:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Looking good.
A few things,
There is no neutral at your heating elements. The only place you'll use the neutral is at the pump (Or any other 110v stuff) The elements only need both "Hot" wires, and ground.
(Check your manual, of course) But you can power the PIDs with 110v or 220v. I don't see the neutral going to your PIDs so I'm assuming you just forgot to draw it in. So you can either wire them to the two Hot's, or carry the neutral to each one for 110v.

As a matter of fact, if you get a 220v pump, you won't need the neutral at all, and can use a 3-wire plug, and cheaper 3-wire cable.

Looks like you're on the right track though!
Ah ok cool, i will remove the neutrals in the drawing which go to the elements (havent wired it yet). I have one of those new chugger pumps, i think its only 125V so i believe it will still require the neutral wire. Thanks for the advice so far, please keep it coming
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