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Old 02-18-2010, 10:13 PM   #1
giligson
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Default Glycerine as a preservative in tropical beer.

Wasn't sure where to post this so here it is as it relates to beer available commercially in India.
This is the first time I have come across the mention of glycerin to "preserve" beer. Also I am scratching my head about the "method to remove glycerin" - isn't glycerin fully miscible in an aqueous solution?
http://www.nomad4ever.com/2009/01/13...e-beer-in-goa/

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Old 02-19-2010, 01:46 PM   #2
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Glycerin is used by the food industry for many things, as a preservative, a thickener and a sweetener. It's fairly common in cheap wines, since it adds 'legs', sweetness and isn't fermentable. It's highly soluble in water and hygroscopic, so I doubt this separation method would work. That assumes there is glycerin in the beer in the first place. It certainly wouldn't make for a "bitter aftertaste".

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Old 02-19-2010, 05:30 PM   #3
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I'm thinking this is a bit of misinformation that has somehow migrated into a "lonely plant" travel guide and has now become something of an urban legend among beer loving travelers to this region.

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Old 02-19-2010, 05:36 PM   #4
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Has anyone else ever cooked with glycerin? I used to use it to rehydrate after wrestling weigh ins... smoothies with 1 TBSP glycerin / 1 TBSP lecithin granules had an unbelievable texture. Perhaps it could be used in small amounts to augment the mouthfeel of an otherwise dry beer.

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Old 02-22-2010, 03:56 PM   #5
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It is used for body and sweetness as an addition to wines in some countries (I think its not allowed in North American wines). It can also be used to add smoothness to poorly distilled vodka.

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Old 05-02-2013, 06:09 AM   #6
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I found this answer at http://techdigger.wordpress.com/2009...aste-like-bud/ posted by John Kater

"Great question, great follow through. Sorry, wrong conclusion.

A couple of things wrong with your premise; glycerine isn’t a preservative, it’s actually a common ingredient in microbial growth media. Additionally, the amount of glycerin soluble in a 95:5 water:ethanol solution would still be completely soluble if additional water were added, as the dissolved glycerin would be proportionally diluted.

“Indian climate is ideal for beer storage”. Really? which part of India and why? Ideal beer storage is someplace with a very stable combination of cool temperature, darkness and moderate humidity. That fact that “India’s climate is ideal for beer storage” is absent from Wikipedia because it’s not, in fact, a fact.

So why do Indian beers suck? The aforementioned climate. Both the ingredients used to make it and the beers are transported unprotected through extremes and wild variations of temperature and humidity, leading to oxidation and skunking. The thick yellow sludge you discovered is a complex of proteins and tannins. These occur at all stages of the brewing process. In the mash, it’s called teig material. In the kettle, it’s called trub. One of the purposes of lagering beer is to allow this complex to form and precipitate out before filtration. Ideally, filtration occurs at near freezing to force a haze formation to strip out more prior to packaging.

The protein residues and tannins are structured in such a way that charged portions of the molecular structures attract the molecules together. If in proximity long enough a covalent bond will form. When this happens repeatedly, polymers form that are insoluble and precipitate out of solution. “Chill haze” is this same complex. the colder the beer, the less active the molecules, the more likely the proteins and tannins are able to bond covalently. Some of these bonds are reversible if insufficient polymerization occurs. Chemical oxidation affects the component molecules to make them more hydrophobic and more likely to aggregate, so temperature swings lead to more haze formation and eventually to insoluble sludge. This stuff is bitter because tannins and oxidized protein residues are bitter.

It can also be indicative of insufficient lagering. Phillip Morris bought Miller about the time cigarette advertising was banned on US television. They started advertising heavily, (especially Lite beer). Anheuser Busch had cash to answer the ad blitz, Schlitz didn’t. To free cash for advertizing, they cut costs in production by shortening lagering time (4 fewer days of refrigeration of a huge beer tank saves money). Schlitz ran ads saying “Go for the Gusto!” about the time this beer hit the market. The shortened lagering time resulted in precipitated sludge in the cans, which was promptly referred to jokingly as “Gusto”. Schlitz never recovered.

So, to summarize, Indian beer sucks BECAUSE of the climate, and that wasn’t glycerin you extracted, it was Gusto.

There is a new brewing enzyme available (aspergillus derived) that selectively breaks the protein residues at a certain amino acid residue, the one that tends to bind the tannins. This effectively makes the beer precipitation and haze proof even in warmer climates by restricting the polymerization potential of the haze.

Having said that, I applaud your out-of-the-box thinking and having the willingness to investigate your theories, that makes you one in a thousand. Kudos! Keep asking questions, they always start the best conversations, and occasionally lead to unexpected answers.

Cheers!"

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Old 05-02-2013, 06:11 AM   #7
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Default Some science in this reply

I found this answer at http://techdigger.wordpress.com/2009...aste-like-bud/ posted by John Kater

"Great question, great follow through. Sorry, wrong conclusion.

A couple of things wrong with your premise; glycerine isn’t a preservative, it’s actually a common ingredient in microbial growth media. Additionally, the amount of glycerin soluble in a 95:5 water:ethanol solution would still be completely soluble if additional water were added, as the dissolved glycerin would be proportionally diluted.

“Indian climate is ideal for beer storage”. Really? which part of India and why? Ideal beer storage is someplace with a very stable combination of cool temperature, darkness and moderate humidity. That fact that “India’s climate is ideal for beer storage” is absent from Wikipedia because it’s not, in fact, a fact.

So why do Indian beers suck? The aforementioned climate. Both the ingredients used to make it and the beers are transported unprotected through extremes and wild variations of temperature and humidity, leading to oxidation and skunking. The thick yellow sludge you discovered is a complex of proteins and tannins. These occur at all stages of the brewing process. In the mash, it’s called teig material. In the kettle, it’s called trub. One of the purposes of lagering beer is to allow this complex to form and precipitate out before filtration. Ideally, filtration occurs at near freezing to force a haze formation to strip out more prior to packaging.

The protein residues and tannins are structured in such a way that charged portions of the molecular structures attract the molecules together. If in proximity long enough a covalent bond will form. When this happens repeatedly, polymers form that are insoluble and precipitate out of solution. “Chill haze” is this same complex. the colder the beer, the less active the molecules, the more likely the proteins and tannins are able to bond covalently. Some of these bonds are reversible if insufficient polymerization occurs. Chemical oxidation affects the component molecules to make them more hydrophobic and more likely to aggregate, so temperature swings lead to more haze formation and eventually to insoluble sludge. This stuff is bitter because tannins and oxidized protein residues are bitter.

It can also be indicative of insufficient lagering. Phillip Morris bought Miller about the time cigarette advertising was banned on US television. They started advertising heavily, (especially Lite beer). Anheuser Busch had cash to answer the ad blitz, Schlitz didn’t. To free cash for advertizing, they cut costs in production by shortening lagering time (4 fewer days of refrigeration of a huge beer tank saves money). Schlitz ran ads saying “Go for the Gusto!” about the time this beer hit the market. The shortened lagering time resulted in precipitated sludge in the cans, which was promptly referred to jokingly as “Gusto”. Schlitz never recovered.

So, to summarize, Indian beer sucks BECAUSE of the climate, and that wasn’t glycerin you extracted, it was Gusto.

There is a new brewing enzyme available (aspergillus derived) that selectively breaks the protein residues at a certain amino acid residue, the one that tends to bind the tannins. This effectively makes the beer precipitation and haze proof even in warmer climates by restricting the polymerization potential of the haze.

Having said that, I applaud your out-of-the-box thinking and having the willingness to investigate your theories, that makes you one in a thousand. Kudos! Keep asking questions, they always start the best conversations, and occasionally lead to unexpected answers.

Cheers!"

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