Posthumous Pale Ale Label

I was given one of the t-shirts by friends who I enjoy watching cheesy zombie movies with. After finding that nobody actually brews such a beer, I decided to do it myself.



I deliberately didn't add anything to help clarification, used a yeast that should normally be filtered, and added copious amounts of red food coloring. The result is awesome! Just the type of beer that a zombie would want to drink.

Edit: Blair Sayer deserves full credit for the artwork that was used. I may have written the copy on the sides, but he designed the logo that was originally sold on a t-shirt from shirt.woot.com and inspired my beer.

That's very well executed.

That's fantastic, if you drew that yourself I'm very impressed.

Good work.

How much for a couple bottles shipped to Chicago? This would be a great present for my slightly zombie obsessed brew buddy. Wait, is that even legal? How 'bout a trade?

Kilgore_Trout said:

That's fantastic, if you drew that yourself I'm very impressed.

Good work.

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I have to admit I didn't draw the zombie part. I stole it from the T-Shirt, but I figured it wasn't that bad, since the T-Shirt inspired the beer...

I'd be willing to do some kind of trade, anyone know of a good way to ship beer?

so you swish around and add the yeast dregs from your bottles? Even on pale Ales?

Sweet!!!!!!

IrregularPulse said:

so you swish around and add the yeast dregs from your bottles? Even on pale Ales?

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That's the way they do it in Australia. An APA (Australian Pale Ale) has the yeast poured into the glass.

BarleyWater said:

That's the way they do it in Australia. An APA (Australian Pale Ale) has the yeast poured into the glass.

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Yeah for this beer I encourage swishing up the dregs, the only reason I encourage this is because I want the beer to be cloudy and red, adding to the creepiness of drinking it.

I only dyed half the batch red, the other half can and should be poured properly.

Superdave said:

I'd be willing to do some kind of trade, anyone know of a good way to ship beer?

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https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/how-do-you-legally-ship-beer-52788/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/beer-mail-74431/#post824779

Those two pretty much cover it.

Cliffs' Notes Version:
- Get a big heavy-duty trash bag and put everything inside of it, in case something *does* break
- Wrap each bottle in bubble wrap
- DON'T ship USPS, it's illegal. The others are just "against policy" but they can't jail yr arse for doing it. I personally use DHL, and so far I've not lost a box, knock on wood. Others have had good luck with Fex and UPS.

By the way, nice work on the label, it's the cat's tits, even if the image is yanked from your shirt.

Cool idea and cool label...

Is it just me or does that beer look like a strawberry daqauri(sp)?

Anbrew said:

Is it just me or does that beer look like a strawberry daqauri(sp)?

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It does look like a strawberry daiquiri, thanks to the red food coloring.

Nice label, I like the layout and the color choices. Do you print your own labels or take them to a printer? (i.e kinkos)

mttewes said:

It does look like a strawberry daiquiri, thanks to the red food coloring.

Nice label, I like the layout and the color choices. Do you print your own labels or take them to a printer? (i.e kinkos)

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It doesn't look so much like a daiquiri in person, the photo doesn't quite do it justice.

I had kinkos print them up. You can get it printed on a sticker-backed paper with laser printing. They seem to hold up as well as any other beer label in ice water, etc. (IE, a little damage, but look okay once dried again.)

It is cool to have the bottles sitting around the house, instead of just blank bottles.

I hate to piss on your parade here Superdave, but that label is the copyright of myself and shirt.woot.com.

Further more , the concept of the beer is totally mine. If, in the future, someone did want to produce this commercially, I would have the right to sell the artwork (with consent from shirt.woot.com).
I appreciate your honesty that you grabbed this from one of woot's shirts, but you have pretty much taken my idea, title, artwork and by line and applied it you your home brew.
I'm sorry dude, this looks like it took you a while, and personally, I wouldn't have a problem with this if it had been confined to your home. But here it is on the internet, without credit to myself or shirt.woot.

I have advised shirt.woot's legal department and am sure they will be in contact soon.

Again, sorry, but credit where credit is due. I am particularly proud of my work, and would hope that one day soon this might actually see production by a micro brewery somehwere in the world.

Aw, MrShake, no hard feelings right? I mean, if anything you should feel proud that your work has actually inspired real, physical beer! It's not like (well, virtually) any of us profit off of our beer OR our labels. They're just for fun and for sharing.

Would it help to smooth this over if a credit line noting your name/website was inserted into the OP? I'm sure the OP would be happy to comply, as he noted that he was unsure of the source to begin with.

As far as shirt.woot..... their site is really hard to navigate. It took me 5 minutes to find where to even view all the shirts for sale. I am not enthused. But they seem to have a loyal following, design be damned. Dunno why I've never heard of them. Their designs are a bit meh - I guess I like the Da Vinci blue shell one. Anyways. That's unrelated. I'm babbling now. Ooh, it's almost time for more cold meds!

Excellent and well done

and +1 on Chriso - if you are that worried about this you REALLY should have the jpg's watermarked.

I shot some photos of Johnny Depp filming a movie and next thing I know they are in the largest Japanese Movie Magazine. If it's on the web it's free and no amount of copywrite can save you.

I even had a person "steal" 8 photos from the movie (Public Enemies) cut out my name and create a colage and sell them for $50 a piece.

WITH THAT SAID - there should be credit line to smooth things out.

Well, it would be an issue if he was selling it...but since it is in fact HOMEbrew for HOME consumption, you have no grounds to stand on. As far as the beer concept...who made the first coffee stout? Do you think they have a leg to stand on for creating the concept of stout and coffee? Copyrighting the shirt will hold no legal bearing if the user of said copyright is not selling it.

I'm sorry but I'm with MrRocks on this one [with regards to the artwork]. Just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it public domain, and just because other people's artwork have been stolen, doesn't make it right... I personally wouldn't have a problem with the home consumption part of it, except that SuperDave posted it on the internet and that changes the idea of personal use.

I work in rights and clearances with digital imagery- and I'll offer up my perspective on this.

Copyright is granted de facto at the time of creation with intellectual property. However, an artist must register that copyright in order to give them a legal basis for any claims, formal or informal, regarding infringement on said copyright. Only when a copyright is registered can an artist seek royalties and reparations. Most copyright infringements happen in circumstances much like these- along the lines of personal usage. In instance like these, it is best that the artist's wishes are respected though a label for personal consumption like this is, to be frank, not worth the legal wranglings for persuit of copyright infringement. Unless the violator of copyright tries to benefit financially from the stolen copyright, the artist is at a real disadvantage.

Unfortunately, the artist must prove when intellectual property rights are violated and it can be a tricky maze to navigate. The internet has complicated intellectual property protections.

Feel free to ask further questions and I'll answer them to best of my ability.

A4J said:

I'm sorry but I'm with MrRocks on this one [with regards to the artwork]. Just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it public domain, and just because other people's artwork have been stolen, doesn't make it right... I personally wouldn't have a problem with the home consumption part of it, except that SuperDave posted it on the internet and that changes the idea of personal use.

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The key to any litigation would be making money though, Hell Queen couldnt even get into trial with Vanilla Ice when he ripped their melody for ice ice baby. If the OP isnt selling this as his own so noone has any right to complain. When he posted it here, he never made any claim that it was his own, simply that he found this on a shirt and was inspired. Would James Hetfield be pissed if I listened to Master of Puppets and wrote a song using the same chords with a different rhythm about pinochio? I know its far fetched (thanks to my very own pale ale) but it makes sense to me...

If the OP isnt selling this as his own so noone has any right to complain.

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Wrong. The artist has every right to complain. But that's where it ends, because there isn't any loss of revenue to either Shirt.Woot or the artist because the OP isn't trying to benefit financially from this inspired design.

This is a question of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law. And before I get branded as some callous corporate thug, I should state that I am very passionate about artist's rights (as both a musician and as a writer), but recognize the shortcomings of copyright law and the uncomfortable position it puts us as 'personal consumers' of intellectual property.

MrRocks said:

I hate to piss on your parade here Superdave, but that label is the copyright of myself and shirt.woot.com.

Further more , the concept of the beer is totally mine. If, in the future, someone did want to produce this commercially, I would have the right to sell the artwork (with consent from shirt.woot.com).
I appreciate your honesty that you grabbed this from one of woot's shirts, but you have pretty much taken my idea, title, artwork and by line and applied it you your home brew.
I'm sorry dude, this looks like it took you a while, and personally, I wouldn't have a problem with this if it had been confined to your home. But here it is on the internet, without credit to myself or shirt.woot.

I have advised shirt.woot's legal department and am sure they will be in contact soon.

Again, sorry, but credit where credit is due. I am particularly proud of my work, and would hope that one day soon this might actually see production by a micro brewery somehwere in the world.

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Wow, this thread generated a lot of talk in the short time since I checked my email this morning (there weren't any notices in my inbox then)!

In no way did I mean for it to appear that the artwork was mine. I made that clear in the original posting. (I said I was given the t-shirt that was available here: http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=5845 for my birthday.)

Anytime anyone asked me if I came up with the label, I explained that I did not come up with the actual artwork, just the copy. I never let anyone think otherwise.

Blair Sayer deserves full credit for the artwork.

And for the record, I never sold a single bottle or otherwise made any money off the beer.

I'm glad that we've had this discussion, and I think it's a very good, valid, and stimulating discussion to have.

I keep coming back to one point though:

He designed a beer around a label that he found and liked. It's not like he stole MrShake's image, then modified the hell out of it and called it his own. (Admittedly something I've done numerous times on labels!!) He left the label intact, and now that we've had this discussion, now we know where the image credit belongs! And... the execution of the beer itself still rocks!!!

Sad thing is there are no more of these shirts. I would have picked one up if Woot wasn't sold out because of this thread.

The beer is a really cool idea too. Well done!

So much has been said, but I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

"an artist must register that copyright in order to give them a legal basis for any claims, formal or informal, regarding infringement on said copyright"
Shirt.woot have registered this on my behalf. Including "Posthumous Pale Ale", "Staggering Refleshing Beer", and all the image artwork involved. So thats the legal.

If someone lifts it and uses it, then they are seriously crossing a line, watermark or no watermark. It's dismissive to assume this is all ok because there's no revenue involved.

On a personal note, I only have a problem with this image being made public in another application, without credit. Thats been resolved (also out of the public domain of this forum, which I appreciate greatly Dave.)

All I can add is you guys love your beer, as I do, but just be careful with your label images, and be respectful to artists work you make public on this forum.

If someone lifts it and uses it, then they are seriously crossing a line, watermark or no watermark. It's dismissive to assume this is all ok because there's no revenue involved.

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While a line was crossed, it wasn't done out of malice or ill-intention. That was my point. Most copyright and license infringements that I encounter professionally are misunderstandings and oversights at the hands of a designer or junior artist (or worse, an agency's client) that doesn't fully understand intellectual property rights and guidelines. I was explaining that for the edification of others that may be reading this thread how copyright works and that unless revenue is at stake, it's largely an academic argument between all the parties.

As an artist, I've been screwed before- so I definitely feel your pain.

flyangler18 said:

While a line was crossed, it wasn't done out of malice or ill-intention. That was my point.

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I fully understand this, I was just making a point against something someone else might have posted.

Superdave hasn't intended to do anything wrong, I know that, it's just he has. And although its not being pursued further here, it wouldbe a shame to overlook it all and something worse happen down the track. It's better to have everything clear before we hug it out, know what i mean?

My new shirt for sale at shirt.woot.com

Enjoy, and don't steal this one Dave! Just kidding man..

Aside from all the legal issues, I have a question about the beer itself. How much food coloring did you use for a 5 gallon batch, assuming it is so. And how did you make sure the coloring was sanitary?

I think it was something like 4 2oz bottles. IIRC, I added some, gently mixed it in, and then ran a little out the spout to see if I liked the color. It went straight out of the bottle into the bottling bucket. I assumed food coloring was sanitary!

BTW, that new shirt is pretty sweet. But don't worry, I learned my lesson on stealing art!

Love the way you went about this beer! Wasn't expecting to see this thread turn into a copyright epic though, haha.

Awesome design MrRocks. If they ever get these back into print I'll definitely be picking one up.

Interesting read, this thread.

To the OP - well done with the beer!



Mr Rocks - Love your art. Checked out your site after seeing your work on woot. Really neat. Any new stuff to show?

Almost bought that Posthumous Pale ale shirt when it first came out. (Big shirt woot fan) Wish I had.

I like the new one, too. Just have too many brown shirts already!

Like I said, I am a fan - Shirt woot has some cool ones. I have:



Woot Shirt : One Shirt, No Shoes, No Service (SM)

and

Woot Shirt : One Shirt, No Shoes, No Service (SM)



(yeah....both brown...)

and a couple other ones that I couldnt find....