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Old 01-27-2011, 09:28 PM   #61
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Overloaded with requests I assume?
It was insane. I think I eventually told them all to go **** themselves.



And then went back to doing push-ups.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:32 PM   #62
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^ I would've said the same.

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Old 01-27-2011, 09:33 PM   #63
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Thanks for the links, btw, I've been looking for some good resources for beer logos and such.

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Old 01-27-2011, 09:39 PM   #64
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No prob

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The best yet: St. Nick's Dirty Stout (Vanilla Gingerbread Stout) - guessed at the recipe when boiling, didn't write anything down... DAMN.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:10 PM   #65
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OP here. Every single one of you are wrong and right in one way or another. As a graphic artist, portrait/wedding photographer, and someone who teaches basic graphic art to young and old students, I'm cringing as I'm reading a few of these view points, and hell, my viewpoint is right and wrong to some as well.

I just want to say this so you would at least have the vast majorities' guidelines for our work... Of course it's ok to borrow other artists work. We consider our work borrowed when you ask us for permission. Sometimes, we also consider it borrowed when you take it without asking first, as long as you show us what you made with it in the end. But in any circumstance, if you "borrow" something that carries a price tag, without asking, you stole it. Stealing is illegal. If it carries a price tag, and you ask us to use a free copy of it because you only use it in your home brewery, we'll say yes, and email you a usable duplication (the only problem here is I'm sure this isn't the case 100% of the time). But remember - if it is on the internet to be sold - this is our income, and we sell this work for this very reason. We sell it to people who want it. But we'll be ethical and reasonable with you if you are with us. You aren't the decision maker when it comes to use of our work, we are (as well as the laws of course). Please ask, or use good judgment on your own.

Add the sites to your resources if you want. Use your own judgment and keep posting your labels for feedback. I'll probably think to myself "Wow, that's a great painting/photo/graphic on your label." I'll research and find the image, then the artist and look at more of their work anyway.
I would like to thank you for the links.

If you are going to bring up a legality reference and consider something stealing or illegal. Remember you only need to change something a small percentage, I think it's 10%?, for the copyright to no longer apply and therefore not be stealing.

Before you respond to that think of how many times that something has been changed ever so minutely throughout history and been a huge benefit to humankind.

I know this hits a nerve for you because it is close to you heart and lively hood but remember you're on a home brewing forum that basically is all about sharing. Sharing ideas, recipes, DIY's, information and other brewing related things.

Then again that's just my opinion and you know opinions are like Aholes everyone has one. lol
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:27 PM   #66
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Remember you only need to change something a small percentage, I think it's 10%?, for the copyright to no longer apply and therefore not be stealing.
From the US copyright office website.

"Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent."

To take it a step further, even using images based on another's work is often seen as infringement. CorelDraw had a contest some year's back to be on the box cover of their next year's product. The winner drew entirely with the program (ie without scanning or tracing) an image of an Indian chief. The drawing was based on a photograph owned by Tony Stone. Even though the computer artist made some notable changes and rendered the entire thing using Corel, the photographer hit paydirt in the lawsuit.
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You guys joke around with this all you want, but let me tell you something: I tried making my own beer one time and wound up with herpes!


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Old 01-27-2011, 10:29 PM   #67
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Then again that's just my opinion and you know opinions are like Aholes everyone has one. lol
Hahahaha nice, I'm taking that one. It strikes a nerve, but I don't get very angry, just frustrated at the attacks and responses from people not in the mood to hear it.

I'm not sure on what the percentage is either, but the artwork does need changing so it isn't used exactly or a direct representation of the original I believe. Some were assuming that I'm angry and then they respond in anger or hurtfulness. I love looking at labels and logos, and I'm happy to contribute my 2 cents when they want to ask the HBT community. I've learned more here in 3 months or so than 2 years on my own.
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Bottled: Oat Red Ale, Peach Wheat, Strawberry Dirty Blonde Ale, Brown Sugar IPA

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The best yet: St. Nick's Dirty Stout (Vanilla Gingerbread Stout) - guessed at the recipe when boiling, didn't write anything down... DAMN.

Last edited by gregger; 01-27-2011 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Cimirie cleared up the percentage/copyright thing nicely :)
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:35 PM   #68
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Whew, it's good I have a home brew in my hand 'cause I'm LMAO ... note to self ... chill

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Old 01-27-2011, 10:58 PM   #69
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From the US copyright office website.

"Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent."

To take it a step further, even using images based on another's work is often seen as infringement. CorelDraw had a contest some year's back to be on the box cover of their next year's product. The winner drew entirely with the program (ie without scanning or tracing) an image of an Indian chief. The drawing was based on a photograph owned by Tony Stone. Even though the computer artist made some notable changes and rendered the entire thing using Corel, the photographer hit paydirt in the lawsuit.
Lol you are taking that quote out of context. That quote assumes you are creating a new version on the same thing. Like if you make a Blue Moon clone and put a Blue Moon label that you scanned and printed on you computer than yes that applies.

Remember we are talking about making Beer Labels out of pictures and backgrounds not duplicating manufacturers labels

I'm not going to include quotes for the sake of everyone's sanity but I will include a link.

Copyright Registration for Derivative Works

Making a beer label in my opinion would be considered a derivative work.

That being said Copyright laws are not cut and dry like a speed limit they are subject to interpretation.

I am opting out of this conversation because I see this as kind of hijacking the thread and while not unlawful it is unethical.

lol cheers
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:42 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShakerD

Lol you are taking that quote out of context. That quote assumes you are creating a new version on the same thing.

Remember we are talking about making Beer Labels out of pictures and backgrounds not duplicating manufacturers labels


Copyright Registration for Derivative Works

Making a beer label in my opinion would be considered a derivative work.

That being said Copyright laws are not cut and dry like a speed limit they are subject to interpretation.

I 100% agree it would be a derivative work. The paragraph I quoted can be found in a section of the link you provided titled "Preparing Derivative Work." Just because a work is derivative doesn't mean it's not infringement. You still have to get the owner's permission.

The Corel example pretty much sums it up.
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You guys joke around with this all you want, but let me tell you something: I tried making my own beer one time and wound up with herpes!


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Secondary: Sorachi Ace IPA
Bottled: Dark Lord Clone Imperial Stout, Winter 2010 Spiced Ale Ambassador Brown Ale, Michigan Berry pLambic
Kegged: Old Woodward ESB, Strawberry Blonde
On Deck: Honey brown ale, dry stout
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