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Old 01-27-2011, 05:24 PM   #51
riromero
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Okay, that’s one approach. The advantage to that type of zero-tolerance policy is there’s no grey area; either it’s theft or it’s not. The disadvantage is that common sense gets left out. So if you cruise over to the “DIY project” section of this site and see a cool design for a sparge braid, no fair using it yourself or even improving it without compensation to or explicit permission from the original author. I won’t even get into the entire beer recipe archive found here. It’s a clear rule, but no reasonable person would consider it misuse.

We’re all adults. We can decide for ourselves what’s reasonable use of information found on the Internet. If you personally want to use the zero-tolerance policy for stuff you come across, that’s fine. For me it seems reasonable that someone who posted a sparge braid design/beer recipe/image to a public forum without stipulating any conditions for it’s use won’t be harmed if I use it personally for non-commercial purposes. It seems reasonable to me that Disney won’t be harmed if some guy uses Jimney Cricket holding a beer mug as a logo for homebrew he shares with his friends. So I propose that everyone abide by whatever they best consider fair use. If it breaks your heart to see others engaging in what you consider blatant, immoral theft, then send them a private message specifically stating what you think is improper rather that casting vague innuendo about misuse found in this sub-forum in general.

That's it. I'm done.

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Old 01-27-2011, 05:25 PM   #52
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If you want to call BS on the Warhol statement, be my guest. It came from a business law class dealing with trademaek infringement in college 10 years ago. I have no citation to provide (as i dont memorize textbook names 10 years after the fact) so if in your mind that in any way validates your argument, so be it. Congratulations! Campbell's did commission a painting from him of their dried soup and donated real soup cans for his gallery - 25 years after he did his first painting of soup, during which, pop culture advertising proved he was an asset. Business is about money. Who cares what he did as long as it makes me richer.
wrong again. the original campbell's painting was done in 1962. campbell commissioned him in 1964.

i hope information from one of the world's most established auction house is a good enough reference:

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For their part, the Campbell Soup Company used the soup can as their company logo and corporate identity. After the paintings' debut and wide publicity in 1962-1963, the company appreciated that their most important product had been catapulted into a new realm. In October 1964, the company commissioned Warhol to make a larger 3 x 2 foot painting of a tomato soup can for Oliver G. Willits upon his retirement as Chairman of the Campbell’s Board of Directors.
http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159344472
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:04 PM   #53
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OP here. Every single one of you are wrong and right in one way or another. As a graphic artist, portrait/wedding photographer, and someone who teaches basic graphic art to young and old students, I'm cringing as I'm reading a few of these view points, and hell, my viewpoint is right and wrong to some as well.

I just want to say this so you would at least have the vast majorities' guidelines for our work... Of course it's ok to borrow other artists work. We consider our work borrowed when you ask us for permission. Sometimes, we also consider it borrowed when you take it without asking first, as long as you show us what you made with it in the end. But in any circumstance, if you "borrow" something that carries a price tag, without asking, you stole it. Stealing is illegal. If it carries a price tag, and you ask us to use a free copy of it because you only use it in your home brewery, we'll say yes, and email you a usable duplication (the only problem here is I'm sure this isn't the case 100% of the time). But remember - if it is on the internet to be sold - this is our income, and we sell this work for this very reason. We sell it to people who want it. But we'll be ethical and reasonable with you if you are with us. You aren't the decision maker when it comes to use of our work, we are (as well as the laws of course). Please ask, or use good judgment on your own.

Add the sites to your resources if you want. Use your own judgment and keep posting your labels for feedback. I'll probably think to myself "Wow, that's a great painting/photo/graphic on your label." I'll research and find the image, then the artist and look at more of their work anyway.

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Old 01-27-2011, 07:02 PM   #54
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If they take something and actually use a piece of it in their "innovation" without compensation, permission, or credit, yes they should feel terrible because they are thieves.
I feel you - if they go on to sell said "innovation" and make money w/ out giving credit. But I'd have to second riromero's plea for some common sense in this particular situation. It's homebrew we're talking about here man.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:32 PM   #55
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OP here. Every single one of you are wrong and right in one way or another. As a graphic artist, portrait/wedding photographer, and someone who teaches basic graphic art to young and old students, I'm cringing as I'm reading a few of these view points, and hell, my viewpoint is right and wrong to some as well.

I just want to say this so you would at least have the vast majorities' guidelines for our work... Of course it's ok to borrow other artists work. We consider our work borrowed when you ask us for permission. Sometimes, we also consider it borrowed when you take it without asking first, as long as you show us what you made with it in the end. But in any circumstance, if you "borrow" something that carries a price tag, without asking, you stole it. Stealing is illegal. If it carries a price tag, and you ask us to use a free copy of it because you only use it in your home brewery, we'll say yes, and email you a usable duplication (the only problem here is I'm sure this isn't the case 100% of the time). But remember - if it is on the internet to be sold - this is our income, and we sell this work for this very reason. We sell it to people who want it. But we'll be ethical and reasonable with you if you are with us. You aren't the decision maker when it comes to use of our work, we are (as well as the laws of course). Please ask, or use good judgment on your own.

Add the sites to your resources if you want. Use your own judgment and keep posting your labels for feedback. I'll probably think to myself "Wow, that's a great painting/photo/graphic on your label." I'll research and find the image, then the artist and look at more of their work anyway.
Get off your high horse and quit dictating how others should act.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:33 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs

I feel you - if they go on to sell said "innovation" and make money w/ out giving credit. But I'd have to second riromero's plea for some common sense in this particular situation. It's homebrew we're talking about here man.
In one of my early posts in this thread, I mentioned that I wasn't trying to change behavior. As I said, I'm no stranger to an occasional lapse in my theory (some of my iPod content, my winter warmer label, etc). But I know that if I'm called to the mat on the subject, there's no place to justify my actions. I am looking for people to simply acknowledge the same.

The likelihood of people caring or even finding out is next to none. It doesn't change the actions.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:00 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
Get off your high horse and quit dictating how others should act.
That's exactly what you're doing bud.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:19 PM   #58
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The likelihood of people caring or even finding out is next to none. It doesn't change the actions.
A+ statement. I understand that what I don't know, won't hurt me, and everyone wins. But I would definitely love to know when someone wants to or did use my labels for their home brews. Not for copyright reasons, but for "flattery".
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The best yet: St. Nick's Dirty Stout (Vanilla Gingerbread Stout) - guessed at the recipe when boiling, didn't write anything down... DAMN.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:21 PM   #59
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I remember in basic training how, upon discovering that I could draw, my fellow recruits asked me to design tattoos for them. For free of course. I gave up on a career in art soon after that.

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Old 01-27-2011, 09:23 PM   #60
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I remember in basic training how, upon discovering that I could draw, my fellow recruits asked me to design tattoos for them. For free of course. I gave up on a career in art soon after that.
Overloaded with requests I assume?
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The best yet: St. Nick's Dirty Stout (Vanilla Gingerbread Stout) - guessed at the recipe when boiling, didn't write anything down... DAMN.
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