Universal Healthcare vs. Universal Foodcare - Page 3

**Mutilated1** · 11-19-2007, 08:47 PM

I must have missed the part where anyone said the government didn't owe them anything.

On the other hand I see a lot of people saying that people shouldn't expect the government to provide everything for them, take care of them, etc.. ( especially with respect to healthcare )

Imagine this. If, god-forbid you get in trouble find yourself needing the services of a lawyer do you want:

A. The best lawyer you can afford
or
B. The court appointed attorney that the government provides for you

??

Of course you don't want the attorney that the government provides unless you're just stupid.

Now consider the same scenario would apply if the government decide they were going to provide universal healthcare. You get sick and need a doctor. Do you want to wait in line for months for the doctor that a bunch of bureocrats and politicians think is appropriate for you while politicians and bureocrats skip to the front of the line ? No.

Bottom line is that government makes a mess out of anything and everything it gets involved in. Universal Healthcare will be a disaster.

For me, no thank you I don't want universal healthcare and I'd greatly appreciate the socialists of the world not taking it upon themselves to help themselves to my income in the name of the greater good to provide it for those that can't or won't provide it for themselves. I do a better job of providing for my family than the government ever will, why should I do with less just because some pinko socialists think they're entitiled to my hardwork and income in the name of fairness ?

**TheJadedDog** · 11-19-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdWort

Very true. The problem is that the Government has gone way beyond what the framers set out and it has grown to take, take and take from the producers to give to the non-producers in order to buy votes which are used to stay in power.

If that was true a guy like Bush would never have been elected. I'm not disputing that the government takes money from those of us who work hard and gives it to undeserving welfare moms, it does. I'm just saying if that activity helped politicians stay in power there would be no Republicans in office.

**Mutilated1** · 11-19-2007, 09:22 PM

Don't kid yourself to think that Republican's don't redistribute the wealth just the same as Democrats do. There's barely a nickles worth of difference between the two parties, they're all corrupt bastards.

**EdWort** · 11-19-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJadedDog

If that was true a guy like Bush would never have been elected. I'm not disputing that the government takes money from those of us who work hard and gives it to undeserving welfare moms, it does. I'm just saying if that activity helped politicians stay in power there would be no Republicans in office.

It's builds bridges to no where, funds stupid pet projects, wastes billions each year, and congress steals the Social Security surplus each and every year.

Bush got elected by electoral college which makes sure all the states with working, tax paying folk get a voice too.

I pretty much agree with Mutilated1 in that they are all corrupt bastiges.

jakee117 · 11-19-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfocus

Why would you need universal health care?

Funnily I watched a show this weekend that listed the top 5 countries for life longevity. Although Canada wasn't in the top 5 (it is 6th) we are pretty high up there. The USA was 42nd...

The good way to think about it is: The longer people live healthy, the longer they will be able to work, the longer they will be able to pay taxes. So by spending a certain amount on universal health care, you gain more money by having a healthier working population.

I disagree. People who have other than a basic health care problem in Canada come to the USA for treatment. You would be stunned at the number of people from Canada and the UK that come to the USA for MRIs and cancer treatment. Its hard to wait 25 weeks for initial treatment for a fast growing brain tumor. This is also done with elective surgery... for example the hip replacement center for Canada is in Cleveland,OH.

I don't know how to fix the system ( maybe just go back to the old free market system where there were few problems ) but most socialized medicine is a failure, it simply provides a base level of low care to everyone and encourages no breakthrough technologies.

Also as I think of it we already have our own example of socialized medicine in the USA. Just look at the veterans Administration... want that for your family?

Sir Humpsalot · 11-20-2007, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJadedDog

Ummmmm, no. The whole point was that the British government was taxing the colonists without giving the colonists representation in the British government. Hence, the rallying cry (as it still is in DC) was No Taxation Without Representation.

So by "No", you really mean "yes" right? You're saying that the government was taking money but not giving the colonists enough for their contribution. In this case, they weren't giving enough representation in government.

So you really agree with what I'm saying, you just feel like arguing. Am I right? Go ahead.... disagree....

**TheJadedDog** · 11-20-2007, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Humpsalot

So by "No", you really mean "yes" right? You're saying that the government was taking money but not giving the colonists enough for their contribution. In this case, they weren't giving enough representation in government.

So you really agree with what I'm saying, you just feel like arguing. Am I right? Go ahead.... disagree....

Well if you want to argue semantics...

teu1003 · 11-20-2007, 02:32 AM

I saw an article online today about a married couple who want to move to New Zealand. Unfortunately for them, they are both overweight and NZ won't let them in because they will overtax the health care system. It seems the husband has lost enough weight to gain admittance - the wife still is struggling back home to lose a few more pounds so she can meet the weight requirements ...FOR MOVING TO A FRIGGIN COUNTRY!

Government ANYTHING automatically means bureaucrats who couldn't get a job in the private sector get to run your life and make decisions about how you live. Free health care ... yea, that won't be complicated or anything.

I used to play online poker now and then. You send the people $100 and you play texas hold'em tournaments at $6 a pop. It was one of those things I truly enjoyed in the evenings - having a brew and playing an hour's worth of poker on my laptop while my wife watched TV. Now I can't because of the Port Security Law that now forbids moving money through neteller (or other such online wallet) to overseas places. PartyPoker.com in a capitulation to the US Govt won't even accept accounts from US addresses anymore. Get government involved in anything and it is OVERKILL. One size fits all rules, regulations and mandates.

flyboy · 11-21-2007, 02:28 PM

I know I'm comming in late to this discussion but I'll put in my two cents in anyway. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2005 while the company I worked for at that time had Blue Cross. Got treatment and had it under control in about 2 months mainly because the insurance directed me what to do to keep me healthy. However, when I was laid off December of 2005, I lost my insurance and worked as an IT contractor for a while. During that time I was told that because I had diabetes I could not get Health insurance for me or my family. I had to pay $120 to see my doctor plus $350 for the blood work every three months. Medications cost $300 a month for my shots and another $45 for Metformin and $95 for Actos. Before my doctors were $25 copay and $0 for blood work, and medications were $50, $10, and $25. I did that for about 6 months and found a job with health insurance. However, I was told by the insurance company that diabetes is a pre-existing conditions and they were not going to cover it unless I received not treatment for 2 years. By that time, I'd be dead. So that wasn't an option. I continued to pay my diabetes treatment myself. When my new employer changed to Blue Cross, I was once again covered because I was diagnosed under them originally. Universal health care? My thoughts are we need something. What I went through was HELL.

Being treated like a second class citizen and being actually told that it was my fault that I got diabetes really made me PO'd. I saw what they did in San Francisco and am wondering if that's what we need. Something similar to what we have for education. Public health care for everyone and if you are not happy with it or need extra or special care get private health. Employers could have an agreement with health care networks that would be above public health. The US ALMOST has that in place with county hospitals and health clinics. We just need to tweek it and we may have it. We need to start with the insurance companies by kicking them in the balls until their eyes pop out or burning them at the steak. Or both. I'm not picky.

rohanski · 11-21-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScabaSteve

On another note, I was watching a show on MSNBC about homeless youth in SanFran, and realized that only in America do you see fat homeless people.

I am for leaner homeless people.