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broadbill · 08-23-2012, 12:59 PM

I heard an interesting fact: we could power the entire US electrical grid with 93 square miles of solar panels. Think about the sheer number of roofs we have available to us and how easy this would be to achieve. I'd throw panels up on my roof for for a nice little tax break. Heck, if somebody would come to maintain them, I'd have no problem doing it for free.

riverfrontbrewer · 08-23-2012, 02:01 PM

You can already put them on your roof and get a tax break. Why haven't you done it yet?!

mustdye · 08-23-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverfrontbrewer

You can already put them on your roof and get a tax break. Why haven't you done it yet?!

I don't have the cash to get started...
Every now and then I search the web for a module system that I could slowly add panels to as I can afford them.

**GilaMinumBeer** · 08-23-2012, 02:18 PM

Solar panel shingles have come a LONG way since,

Of course, the shingles don't exactly serve as a water heating source.

**SharonaZamboni** · 08-23-2012, 02:19 PM

The 19 wind turbines I mentioned are expected to provide enough power for 6,000 homes, which are located within two towns. One town's population is 93, the other is 752. The project created 100 temporary jobs and 3-5 permanent jobs. Rather than paying taxes, the company has pledged annual payments of $257,000.

TyTanium · 08-23-2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfonnes

The only energy solution is population reduction.

Finally a use for our nukes, reduce the human population to 500,000,000.

You first. Haha.

Re: Wind turbines
I've seen a few articles saying they may not be as green as we think. Some of the concerns were killing birds in the turbines, changing the airflow/turbulence in the region (i.e., hotter), and heat generated by the turbines. I don't have an opinion one way or the other, but interesting to think through the full implications of alternative energy.

Me, I'm pulling for cold fusion. Looks pretty simple as explained here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120053/

**Randar** · 08-23-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharonaZamboni

I don't get it. Highways are ugly. Most of the old factories I see here in MA are ugly. Utility poles and lines (all over MA) are ugly. Oil drills and strip mining are ugly.

WTH? Most of what we do to obtain the energy we use, and the ways we use that energy are ugly.

So people use "ugly" as their primary reason to dislike practical, but different ways of harvesting energy.
Well, the anti-turbine people are afraid that bats will confuse turbines for trees or avoid the area completely, since they are looking for the tallest trees. I suppose the bats also avoid the acres of corn and hayfields, too.
Solar roof panels are too ugly in the desert. But a zillion tons of stucco and concrete look great. Must. fight. the. sun!

Excellent points on the hypocrisy of "ugly". I've never seen a pretty plume of hydrocarbon exhaust or coal-fired power plant. Hell, I've been in a couple and aesthetics never came to mind as having been considered during their design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homercidal

I generally see these attempts at reducing our fossil fuels as a beautiful thing. It's not a complete replacement for every need. I don't think anyone with half a brain would claim it is, but it could help. We also need to find ways to make a household operate on just the power made by these kinds of energy sources.

Agreed. I have pondered, given the past 12-24 months of crazy weather pattern changes against normal/record patterns, how climate change might affect our placement of green energy sources. Will high-wind areas be such in 25 years? Will high solar-energy density areas be the same in 25 years?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homercidal

Oh, hang on. My heater is on too high. I gotta turn up the AC to compensate...

BRB

LOL!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TyTanium

You first. Haha.

umm, yeah... where is the BACK of that line?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharonaZamboni

They feel the farm spoils their view of the landscape.

ironically, all the flat-ass farmland landscape around here looks better with something taller than a rock-pile next to a field or a HWY overpass.

They are still evaluating a wind farm on the Southern part of Lake Michigan, although I believe the State of Michigan has already received a permit for their version of the same. Seems a no-brainer given the lack of salinity compared to oceanic off-shore wind farms, the fact that the Southern part of the lake is very shallow and the close proximity to a huge energy demanding metropolitan area.

**mbauer013** · 08-23-2012, 02:44 PM

Not to mention that all of the "solutions" to oil dependency require oil to implement. Solar panels are made of polycarbonate (oil) in factories using oil to lubricate machinery and create the molds, paints, housings, etc. Shipped by truck installed using plastic bushings and wires made of metal mined by big turcks running on oil, the wires are coated in plastic by people wearing safety gear made of plastic.

Turbines are made of carbon fiber (oil) lubricated by oil, painted with poly based paint and require miles and miles of wire mined etc. etc. Oil is such a part of our life I'm afraid "green" is only a delay to the inevitable oil crash.

**Randar** · 08-23-2012, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbauer013

Not to mention that all of the "solutions" to oil dependency require oil to implement. Solar panels are made of polycarbonate (oil) in factories using oil to lubricate machinery and create the molds, paints, housings, etc. Shipped by truck installed using plastic bushings and wires made of metal mined by big turcks running on oil, the wires are coated in plastic by people wearing safety gear made of plastic.

Turbines are made of carbon fiber (oil) lubricated by oil, painted with poly based paint and require miles and miles of wire mined etc. etc. Oil is such a part of our life I'm afraid "green" is only a delay to the inevitable oil crash.

Yes, but isn't the point to buy ourselves time for technology advancement and to continue to develop alternatives? Like you said, making the current hydrocarbon-based fuels last as long as possible by 1) reducing our dependency and 2) getting more energy efficiency out of them is not a final solution on its own.

**GilaMinumBeer** · 08-23-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbauer013

Not to mention that all of the "solutions" to oil dependency require oil to implement. Solar panels are made of polycarbonate (oil) in factories using oil to lubricate machinery and create the molds, paints, housings, etc. Shipped by truck installed using plastic bushings and wires made of metal mined by big turcks running on oil, the wires are coated in plastic by people wearing safety gear made of plastic.

Turbines are made of carbon fiber (oil) lubricated by oil, painted with poly based paint and require miles and miles of wire mined etc. etc. Oil is such a part of our life I'm afraid "green" is only a delay to the inevitable oil crash.

The concept has never been to eliminate the dependancy (although crude based lubricrants are not the only game in town) but to, as much as humanly possible, relegate it's usefulness to industry alone so that the crash may be somewhat tempered rather than catastrophic.