Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Why not transfer to secondary during fermentation?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-17-2012, 08:36 PM   #1
ScoRas
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 202
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default Why not transfer to secondary during fermentation?

I'm currently working on my first batch and have been perusing many threads regarding secondary conditioning in carboys.

It seems that one of the disadvantages of transferring to secondary after the FG is reached is that one exposes the beer to oxygen. Why not rack to secondary while the primary fermentation is still occurring, and maintain CO2 production, thus protecting the beer?

__________________
ScoRas is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2012, 08:40 PM   #2
Jayhem
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Culpeper, VA
Posts: 2,567
Liked 256 Times on 207 Posts
Likes Given: 1163

Default

My understanding is that racking the beer off the yeast cake can cause fermentation stalling and flavor problems since you are loosing the yeast cake which is partially responsible for cleaning up off flavors after attenuation is reached. The only beer I've brewed that was a dud was one that I trasferred to secondary while it was still fermenting. It is way too sweet, never reached FG and is having problems carbonating even after 4 weeks. I think I lost too much yeast during transfer so there was not sufficient yeast to finish the job.

__________________

Next up: American Pale Ale
Primary 1&2: American Brown Ale
Primary 3&4: Hopped up Belgian Tripel
Bottle Conditioning/drinking: Summer Kolsch, White Zombie (Amarillo IPA), English Pale Ale (ESB)

Jayhem is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2012, 08:44 PM   #3
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2729 Times on 1637 Posts
Likes Given: 3485

Default

Many of us don't use secondary for most beers anyway...But why would you want to transfer a beer off the yeast that is trying to ferment the beer before the beer is complete?

And relying on whatver yeast was slow to get starting and slow to flocculate, to finish fermenting your beer, especially if it's a higher grav one, to me that's like leaving the 3rd string JV of the local high school to finish playing the second half of the superbowl when the team is already down by 21 points.....

Folks who do that usually end up with stuck fermentations, or stressed out yeast causing off flavors....

Also the reason folks opt for long primaries over secondaries at all have to do with the fact that if left to their devices, yeast are very fastidious creatures....if you don't rack them right away, they WILL go back and clean up their own waste- all those byproducts of fermentation that lead to off flavors. So even if folks still want to rack to a secondary, I recommend they wait another week after fermentation has ceased to let the yeast do so.....

Even John Palmer has advocated not rushing the beer off the yeast for that very reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by How To Brew
Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

That's why when I do rack I check gravity on day 12 and again on day 14 to confirm fermentation is complete, then rack.
__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
ScoRas Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2012, 08:45 PM   #4
Lunchtime
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: springfield, missouri
Posts: 338
Liked 13 Times on 13 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

I think a better question is...Why not just leave it in the primary? Are you wanting to move it to the secondary just to use the secondary?

__________________
Lunchtime is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2012, 08:47 PM   #5
ScoRas
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 202
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Thanks for the reply. I'm not going to risk it, and will wait until FG is reached. This batch seems to be cranking and I'll let the yeast do their job. I am going to go to secondary, mainly because I poured my wort into the fermenter and added a lot of trub. I'll be using the stir and siphon technique next time.

This is my first solo brew (extract) blind-pig double IPA kit from morebeer.

This forum is great!

__________________
ScoRas is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2012, 08:51 PM   #6
ScoRas
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 202
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunchtime View Post
I think a better question is...Why not just leave it in the primary? Are you wanting to move it to the secondary just to use the secondary?
I poured in a lot of trub and thought I'd get a cleaner taste if I conditioned in secondary. The answers in this thread certainly convinced me to let the fermentation finish in primary, and I know that conditioning in secondary is purely optional.
__________________
ScoRas is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2012, 11:12 PM   #7
helibrewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
helibrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 3,176
Liked 186 Times on 168 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Default

There's actually no harm in leaving it on the trub...even if there is a lot of it.

__________________
Something is always fermenting....
"It's Bahl Hornin'"

Primary:
Brite Tank/Lagering:
Kegged: Hefeweizen, Chocolate Hazelnut Porter, Kumquat Saison, Tart Cherry Cider, Belgian Tripel, Maibock Bock, Ommegang Abbey Ale Clone, Belgian Golden Strong, German Pils (WLP830)
Bottled: Belgian Quad (Grand Reserve), Derangement (Belgian Dark Strong)
On Deck:
My Site: www.restlesscellars.com
helibrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2012, 11:37 PM   #8
johnsma22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
johnsma22's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 1,892
Liked 32 Times on 26 Posts

Default

"I don't often make use of a secondary, but when I do, I use Better-Bottles!"

Oxygen Free Racking





The primary has a ported closure with a 90˚ barb fitting installed. A length of 1/4" ID tubing from the barb fitting connects to the ID of the inlet of the high flow valve on the secondary. The secondary also has a ported closure, but this is where the dry trap air lock is installed. I put a short length of tubing on the barb of the airlock and insert it into a sandwich bag with sanitizer in it so that I can see the bubble rate.

The CO2 produced during the primary phase is used to purge the air out of the secondary. When it is time to rack, the 1/4" ID tubing simply gets removed from the valve on the secondary to the outlet barb of the air lock. This will allow for equalization during the transfer. Next, I connect a length of 1/2 ID tubing to the OD of both high flow valves. Now the secondary is placed on the floor while the primary is elevated, both valves are opened, and gravity does the rest. No introduction of O2 whatsoever. I even purge the air out of the tubing with CO2 from my tank before connecting it up.

__________________
Cheers,
John
johnsma22 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2012, 01:20 AM   #9
ScoRas
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 202
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

@johnsma, that is a great solution! From reading a lot more threads about the subject, and taking all of your replies to heart, I am not going to move this batch to secondary.

I think for every experiment that it is good to focus on learning one major thing about the system. For my first batch, I think observing all of the aspects of primary fermentation should be the goal, and from many experienced brewers, it should also result in a nice beer. Prost.

__________________
ScoRas is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do I need to transfer to a secondary? DWavs Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 12 10-10-2011 05:36 PM
beginner question on end of fermentation/transfer to secondary jazzyeric Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 05-18-2011 06:48 PM
Should my fermentation be complete when I transfer to secondary? Pixalated Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 02-24-2011 02:07 PM
Transfer to secondary BEFORE fermentation stops? sensibull Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 7 10-30-2010 12:00 AM
transfer to secondary FEARDIZ Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 10-22-2007 09:17 PM