Why Add Malt extract before Hops?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
D

Delaney

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
486
Reaction score
22
Location
Montreal
I just watched this video on how to brew

I don't understand why you have to add Malt extract, and then bring your wort to a boil, before adding hops and starting 60 minute clock.

What I did was bring wort to a boil after steeping, then I added Malt extract and hops, and started the 60 minute clock, then brought to a boil again. The difference in temperature was about 5 degrees from 100F beforehand to 95F after adding malt extract and hops, and took until the 50 minute mark to start boiling again...so 10 minutes into the boil.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It depends on if you are steeping grains or not. You always steep,sparge,boil through hot break,then add some of the malt. I prefer late additions for the malt for lighter colors & better flavor. Hop utilization goes up a little when using late malt additions.
 
Thanks for the info...I didn't realize the timing of the malt being late would affect hop utilization...I use a 2 gallon boil(pot size), so I y to add 60-70% of the malt in the final 15 minutes of boil...therefore this is relevant to my situation. Is there more info you can provide regarding how to calculate the effect this will have on hop utlilization?


I have been and will continue to steep grains...Im sticking to extract and specialty grain until I get a better hold of things
 
Delaney said:
Thanks for the info...I didn't realize the timing of the malt being late would affect hop utilization...I use a 2 gallon boil(pot size), so I y to add 60-70% of the malt in the final 15 minutes of boil...therefore this is relevant to my situation. Is there more info you can provide regarding how to calculate the effect this will have on hop utlilization?


I have been and will continue to steep grains...Im sticking to extract and specialty grain until I get a better hold of things
Click to expand...

The hops utilization changes are really negligible, so don't worry too much about it. I like to add the majority of the extract near or at flame out, to avoid darkening/carmelizing with a small boil. That's the main benefit.
 
I see I'm getting some love. The thread I posted the video in has more detailed information. With that being said, I agree with unionrdr on late batch extract additions. In fact I always split mine up now usually adding half the extract in the beginning of the boil and half at the end. I made that video a while ago and have since changed some of my methods.
 
Cool.

So basically I'm just looking to confirm that there's not really going to be a difference between the way I went about starting the 60 minute boil which is:

-boil wort after steeping grains
-add Malt extract and hops
-Start 60 minute clock
-increase heat back to 100Celcius from about 95 Celcius(usually returns to boil after 10 minutes of 60 minut boil)

versus the video which indicates to

-boil wort after steeping grains
-add malt extract
-boil
-add hops and start 60 minute boil



The video was great, but I had to turn down the volume...different tongues have different tastes
 
Delaney said:
Cool.

So basically I'm just looking to confirm that there's not really going to be a difference between the way I went about starting the 60 minute boil which is:

-boil wort after steeping grains
-add Malt extract and hops
-Start 60 minute clock
-increase heat back to 100Celcius from about 95 Celcius(10 minutes later)
Click to expand...

I don't get the last line. You want to start the boil. Once you're boiling, add the hops and set the timer for 60 minutes. If you add extract at the beginning, do that before you add the hops, because it can "cool" the wort a bit. Make sure you're at a rolling boil before adding the hops and then set the timer to 60 minutes. If you're not boiling, don't add the hops and start the timer yet!
 
BTW, I removed it from the heat in order to add the malt extract so I could get the extract mixed in before it got a chance to get scorched on the bottom of the pot.
 
The heavier the wort,the more hops you need to compensate. I use half the DME in my boil,then the remaining half at the end with all the LME.
 
dfc said:
BTW, I removed it from the heat in order to add the malt extract so I could get the extract mixed in before it got a chance to get scorched on the bottom of the pot.
Click to expand...

And that should always be done, whether adding extract early or late! If you leave the pot on the heat, the extract will fall to the bottom and scorch/burn. Take it off of the heat, stir well, place it back on the heat.

The reason I started adding the bulk of the extract at flame out was to prevent it from burning as well as to avoid issues with stopping the boil and trying to add my late hops.
 
You can add the extract after steeping, but before you bring it to a boil, there's no problem with that. I would let it get back to a boil before adding hops though. a 60 minute boil time will be more effective than a 50 minute boil time.
 
dfc said:
BTW, I removed it from the heat in order to add the malt extract so I could get the extract mixed in before it got a chance to get scorched on the bottom of the pot.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm using Extract Syrup so I skipped this step. I also was stirring the wort while pouring the syrup...and for a minute or so after to make sure nothing stuck

What I did incorrectly was that I added the Malt Extract, but instead of bringing to a boil again before adding hops, I added the hops immediately after adding the extract. I was thinking the difference in temperature would be negligible, because the difference was 203F to the boiling temp of 213F. So what happens differently to the hops when added at 213F versus 203F(which I did). I would raise the temperature back to a boil, but this required ~10 minute between the 60 minute and 50 minute mark.
 
Delaney said:
Okay, I'm using Extract Syrup so I skipped this step. I also was stirring the wort while pouring the syrup...and for a minute or so after to make sure nothing stuck

What I did incorrectly was that I added the Malt Extract, but instead of bringing to a boil again before adding hops, I added the hops immediately after adding the extract. I was thinking the difference in temperature would be negligible, because the difference was 203F to the boiling temp of 213F. So what happens differently to the hops when added at 213F versus 203F(which I did). I would raise the temperature back to a boil, but this required ~10 minute between the 60 minute and 50 minute mark.
Click to expand...

The hops oils are only isomerized with boiling- it's the action of the boil that does this, not the temperature. So next time, wait until you're boiling, then set your timer for 60 minutes and add the hops. By boiling the hops 10 minutes less, you'll have less bittering out of them and have done a "50 minute boil" instead of a 60 minute boil. It's ok, but next time bring the wort to a rolling boil and then add the hops, before starting the timer, whether you add extract or not!
 
Today I did a mini mash and a metal whisk proved to be really handy. For stirring the grains at the start to avoid doughballs. Also to stir in and dissolve the DME and LME to avoid scorching and clumps. Worked really well and fast compared to the spoon. Just a few good strong turns and back on the heat.
 
Yooper said:
The hops oils are only isomerized with boiling- it's the action of the boil that does this, not the temperature. So next time, wait until you're boiling, then set your timer for 60 minutes and add the hops. By boiling the hops 10 minutes less, you'll have less bittering out of them and have done a "50 minute boil" instead of a 60 minute boil. It's ok, but next time bring the wort to a rolling boil and then add the hops, before starting the timer, whether you add extract or not!
Click to expand...

Thanks, just the answer I was looking for:ban:
 
You can get the same acid in less boiling time by using more hops. For example, I whimped out today and decided it was too hot for an AG. (I brew in the kitchen) I used 0.5 oz of Sonnet for 3 gallons of Wiezen Beer from extract with a 30 minute total boil for 11 IBU. According to Beersmith I could have had the same bittering from 0.3 oz with a 60 minute boil. The minimum I would boil the surgars would be 15 minutes for samitation. The maximum utilization for hops is about an hour, hence the magic hour boil.
 
cool, I sort of guessed this already from looking at recipes...but I was curious as to what would happen if you exceeded the 60 minute mark...I guess you then are no longer extracting alpha acids and what not, not to mention burning of essential oils
 
Delaney said:
cool, I sort of guessed this already from looking at recipes...but I was curious as to what would happen if you exceeded the 60 minute mark...I guess you then are no longer extracting alpha acids and what not, not to mention burning of essential oils
Click to expand...

You still get more IBUs out of a longer boil, but it's at the rate of diminishing returns. For example, you will get more IBUs out of a 90 minute hops addition than a 60, but not a whole lot more. That's why most people do 60 minute boils.
 
Yooper said:
And that should always be done, whether adding extract early or late! If you leave the pot on the heat, the extract will fall to the bottom and scorch/burn. Take it off of the heat, stir well, place it back on the heat.

The reason I started adding the bulk of the extract at flame out was to prevent it from burning as well as to avoid issues with stopping the boil and trying to add my late hops.
Click to expand...

Okay, take the pot off the heat to add sugar extract, but isnt that only for Liquid malt extract? I think i heard there are no worries about that for DME, which I guess makes sense since it floats more.
 
shanek17 said:
Okay, take the pot off the heat to add sugar extract, but isnt that only for Liquid malt extract? I think i heard there are no worries about that for DME, which I guess makes sense since it floats more.
Click to expand...

I've seen it clump up and sink to the bottom, but that's not going to be the case every time.
 
No,it isn't for the most part. I just stir roughly,but not splashing any out of the kettle while pouring the DME in.
 
I've been using an electric blender, one of those handheld ones for soup to obliterate the living hell out of those DME lumps. Just dissolved the DME in 1/2 gal of water, nuked it to hell then added it to the boil. Smooth as a baby's bottom. A whole load of hot break though probably due to so much oxygen being whisked into it.
 
Just watch out for that hot break though bro
My last extract EPA was a 6 gal batch, because of using a soup blender my hot break rose to the 13 gal mark in my 15 gal kettle. I was scared.
 
Once you've blended it, maybe try leaving it out on a worktop for an hour? I imagine it might be a bit like a bubblebath, the longer you leave it, the less bubbles. Maybe then there might be less oxygen present.
 

Similar threads

Lollim96
Can someone please explain AG brewing in mash tune that don’t have elements? Like cooler tuns?
Replies
13
Views
1K
marx2k
M
B
Newbie already made a mistake?
3 4 5
Replies
187
Views
5K
Bagarge
B
L
Flame-Out Hops Addition and Hop Socks
Replies
4
Views
658
mac_1103
mac_1103
alutis05
Brewing ALL-GRAIN dark beer (lager).
Replies
9
Views
469
AlexKay
A
Luxy
Commercial extract vs bulk extract
Replies
22
Views
2K
Luxy
Luxy
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top