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05-28-2009, 05:54 AM
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#1
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What is Dubbel?
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Is this a silly question? I can't quite get a handle on this.
I was trying to find out if you can make beer without a bittering agent like hops or spruce or bitter spice. Just because, ok.
Anyway, when I looked it up I came across "dubbel".
I also found Belgian dubbel w/hops.
Is there such a thing as making beer with malt only? Is it not beer at that point? Is it malt wine and not beer? Is it called something else? Got answers?
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05-28-2009, 06:20 AM
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#2
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Maniacally Malty
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Only Dubbel I know of is a Belgian Dubbel:
BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Category 18
As for beer without hops, I'd imagine it's pretty tough to get the right bittering down, but it's entirely possible. If you make a beer with malt only, it will be sweet and cloying...you need a bittering agent to balance.
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05-28-2009, 10:28 AM
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#3
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Quote:
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If you make a beer with malt only, it will be sweet and cloying...you need a bittering agent to balance.
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Not entirely true: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/medieval-ale-discussion-experiences-101776/
To the OP, it is indeed possible to brew beers without any bittering agent as the thread above shows; historically, fermented malt beverages could also be bittered with herbs other than hops and were known as 'gruit'.
Jason
Last edited by flyangler18; 05-28-2009 at 11:26 AM.
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05-28-2009, 11:57 AM
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#4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyangler18
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Yes, but you have to concede that your recipe in that link isn't necessarily what most would call a typical beer recipe and that on the average, just brewing a standard beer recipe minus the hops would in many cases result in an out of balance beverage....which is likely the point that DB was making with a broad brushstroke.
OP: what links did you find that indicated that dubbles didn't use hops or alternative bitterings? There are several unbittered fermented beverages I've read about in the past but I don't recall anything on the basic dubbel style.
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05-28-2009, 01:36 PM
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#5
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Internet Bartender
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There are also Malt beverages (non-alcoholic) with no hops I believe, some flavored with different fruits.
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05-28-2009, 01:44 PM
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#6
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Quote:
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Yes, but you have to concede that your recipe in that link isn't necessarily what most would call a typical beer recipe and that on the average, just brewing a standard beer recipe minus the hops would in many cases result in an out of balance beverage....which is likely the point that DB was making with a broad brushstroke.
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Absolutely! I just abhor generalizations.  It, of course, depends entirely on the characteristics of the style as to the amount of bitterness necessary to balance.
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05-28-2009, 03:20 PM
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#7
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Maniacally Malty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyangler18
Absolutely! I just abhor generalizations.  It, of course, depends entirely on the characteristics of the style as to the amount of bitterness necessary to balance.
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I've also heard of wheat wine being made without hops, which could be quite tasty. I too abhor generalizations, but as my friend always tells me when I try to give too many details at the LHBS, "Don't muddy the water for the beginners."
In general, ale made without hops would be extremely malty and/or sweet. I'd imagine the majority of "medieval" ales were terrible.
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05-28-2009, 03:27 PM
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#8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathBrewer
In general, ale made without hops would be extremely malty and/or sweet. I'd imagine the majority of "medieval" ales were terrible.
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Give the one linked a shot; I found it neither extremely malty nor sweet. In fact, it's rather nutty. Very refreshing, as a matter of fact! 
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05-28-2009, 06:26 PM
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#9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathBrewer
In general, ale made without hops would be extremely malty and/or sweet. I'd imagine the majority of "medieval" ales were terrible.
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As Jason notes, you should try some before becoming too married to your preconceptions!
Me, I <3 me some weak, table ale with my breakfast...
Bob
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05-28-2009, 06:32 PM
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#10
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Maniacally Malty
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Hey, i'm sure you can...but i've brewed and not used enough hops before...cloying sweetness is entirely possible even when you make "beer."
I also said "in general", so you bafoons can stop telling me I'm "married to my preconceptions" and understand that I'm trying to give a new person good advice, not explore every single avenue and overwelm the poor guy.
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