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Old 03-24-2013, 02:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Calder View Post
When you bottle your next beer, pour the cake into a container, loosely seal the top (or the container will explode) and set it off to the side somewhere.

Then you will know what autolysis is.
That's what I did here. I revived the yeast with a little sugar to generate CO2.

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I store my slurry in mason jars in the fridge, with the intention of using it within a couple of months. At 6 months at fridge temperatures there is an obvious autolysis smell starting to appear. At room temperature it should occur much faster.

You will know when you have it.

I think that once you start to starve it of the nutrients in the beer, it becomes cannibalistic.
From what I've read, when they actually die, their internal enzymes start to reduce them from within.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:02 AM   #22
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Fascinating subject. Could you bottle a bunch of bombers with lots of yeast, then taste one per month, after say, 4 months?

Keep us up to date with your results.
That's not a bad idea. I liked the other comment that it will even occur in a fridge. I have six growlers at my disposal, heck I've got plenty of bombers too.

Multiple containers of the same batch of trub. Tasted over a span of months.

Actually towards the end, I'm thinking maybe just a quick whiff, not a taste.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:07 AM   #23
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That's what I did here. I revived the yeast with a little sugar to generate CO2.
If you want to create autolysis, you don't want to feed it.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:13 AM   #24
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Not sure of a good way to do it, but I've heard an increase in pressure is one reason big brewers see autolysis and homebrewers do not. There is so much in a tank that there is an appreciable amount of pressure on the yeast at the bottom. I just don't know a good way to increase pressure (can't just use CO2 because it would not only increase variables, but it would go into solution).

We need an isostatic press!
Nope, you just need a spunding valve and a keg to ferment in.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Spunding

I do some pressurized fermentation, and once had some autolysis when my spunding valve got gummed up and stuck, resulting in very high pressure in the fermenter. As mentioned, pressure, heat, time, and yeast health are all contributing factors to autolysis, but pressure and heat are by far the biggest IME.

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People leave beer in primary for months on end without autolysis. It could take a long while to acheive.
Yep, I've left beer on the yeast cake for 6 months without any hint of autolysis. I've left ciders for even longer.
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanMoore

Nope, you just need a spunding valve and a keg to ferment in.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Spunding
Right. I know there are ways to pressurize beer. I was trying to figure out a way to pressurize without allowing extra gas to be absorbed into the liquid (like the conditions at the bottom of a very large fermenter where the pressure comes from the depth of the liquid, not the pressurized headspace).

But that is interesting information.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:56 AM   #26
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If you want to create autolysis, you don't want to feed it.
Thanks Calder.

I was just trying to expiate the oxygen and leave a CO2 blanket to keep aerobic bacteria off.

I did this to emulate a carboy, first fermentation, followed by a long setting period.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:05 AM   #27
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from my experience you can get autolysis by letting a beer go through primary fermentation and letting it clear in the same vessel, and then holding it at 80*F or better for a few more weeks in the fermentor. Works like a charm!
Plenty of dead and dormant yeast and nothing else around for them to eat, let the temperature get way up there to get them good and active, and taste the rainbow

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Old 03-25-2013, 04:17 AM   #28
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... let the temperature get way up there to get them good and active, and taste the rainbow
Nice!

I'm concerned with the time factor mostly. Heating would prove something else.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:32 AM   #29
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Never experienced it just from time in ales myself, even leaving brews on the yeast for two or three months.

But I always regret trying to brew in August, that's what I get for not setting up a cooler!

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Old 03-25-2013, 05:33 AM   #30
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Hmm. I wonder. What if the autolysis is occurring in the "good" batches left on the yeast too? The difference could be that the chemical bouquet produced by autolysis at lower temperatures and/or pressures just isn't unpleasant.

Solid information on autolysis as it relates to brewing, has turned out to be surprising difficult to find. I will be following this thread with interest.

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