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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > What conditions cause autolysis - yeast death and rupture?
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:16 PM   #11
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I'm no expert on the subject, but my understanding is that autolysis is exacerbated by temperature. That is, a warm temperature would encourage the breaking down of the cells. Pressure, too, so it might be hard to do it at home without ruining a big batch of beer.

One way to experience the "meaty" smell and taste of autolysis is simply to rack out your beer, and keep an inch or two of beer on the yeast cake and put it someplace warm for two or three weeks. That should do it.

Some winemakers do age sur lie- but it those cases, the lees are regularly stirred. That gives the wine a certain je ne sais quoi, but not a bad flavor. If the lees weren't stirred, though, that would create more of a bad off flavor. At least that is my understanding from winemaking.

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Old 03-16-2013, 04:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Dynachrome View Post
I was wondering if there was an under-pitch factor going on maybe. The yeast were stressed from starting with not enough survivors in the packet. ?

Re-hydrating with a little fermentable would give a higher pitch rate too, right?
Dry yeast contains more cells than liquid yeast packages. They seem to account for losses when pitching dry. But not from the packet. It's from losses during rehydrating in the wort,which increases lag time as well.
Rehydrating in wort is the same as pitching dry. That's why rehydrating in water works a bit better,in conjunction with getting the yeast down to within 10 degrees of wort temp slowly before pitching. This makes for less attrition of yeast cells at pitch time,shortening lag time as a result.
So to try to simulate autolysis,pitch it dry in cooled wort in the fermenter. Old yeast would help it as well.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:18 PM   #13
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It's started.

I used a growler with an air-lock. I filled it over half full of trub and added some table sugar and some tap water.

The air-lock started going almost immediately. I sterilized everything. I used Vodka for the air-lock.

echs3r1ment.jpg   trub.jpg   beer.jpg  
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #14
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Dry yeast contains more cells than liquid yeast packages. They seem to account for losses when pitching dry. But not from the packet. It's from losses during rehydrating in the wort,which increases lag time as well.
Rehydrating in wort is the same as pitching dry. That's why rehydrating in water works a bit better,in conjunction with getting the yeast down to within 10 degrees of wort temp slowly before pitching. This makes for less attrition of yeast cells at pitch time,shortening lag time as a result.
So to try to simulate autolysis,pitch it dry in cooled wort in the fermentor. Old yeast would help it as well.
I didn't do a bunch of these suggestions because I had everything ready and could just go.

Also, I'm kinda good with my methods as stands for now.

This is because I was told if I let a regular batch of beer set in a carboy for too long, I will achieve autolysis.

I can always try to distress some yeast again later.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
I'm no expert on the subject, but my understanding is that autolysis is exacerbated by temperature. That is, a warm temperature would encourage the breaking down of the cells. Pressure, too, so it might be hard to do it at home without ruining a big batch of beer.

One way to experience the "meaty" smell and taste of autolysis is simply to rack out your beer, and keep an inch or two of beer on the yeast cake and put it someplace warm for two or three weeks. That should do it.

Some winemakers do age sur lie- but it those cases, the lees are regularly stirred. That gives the wine a certain je ne sais quoi, but not a bad flavor. If the lees weren't stirred, though, that would create more of a bad off flavor. At least that is my understanding from winemaking.
For good measure, what, eight weeks unmolested, and see what happens?
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:44 PM   #16
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People leave beer in primary for months on end without autolysis. It could take a long while to acheive.

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Old 03-23-2013, 09:08 PM   #17
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I have six growlers that I almost never use.

Here is a video of the experiment airlock.

I forgot, you can't tip a camera when you are taking video.

My growler experiment

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Old 03-23-2013, 09:14 PM   #18
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Workin kinda slow. Looks like it's been going for a while?

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Old 03-23-2013, 11:25 PM   #19
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When you bottle your next beer, pour the cake into a container, loosely seal the top (or the container will explode) and set it off to the side somewhere.

Then you will know what autolysis is.

I store my slurry in mason jars in the fridge, with the intention of using it within a couple of months. At 6 months at fridge temperatures there is an obvious autolysis smell starting to appear. At room temperature it should occur much faster.

You will know when you have it.

I think that once you start to starve it of the nutrients in the beer, it becomes cannibalistic.

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Old 03-24-2013, 03:19 AM   #20
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Fascinating subject. Could you bottle a bunch of bombers with lots of yeast, then taste one per month, after say, 4 months?

Keep us up to date with your results.

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